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 Post subject: Re: Struggling
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:07 am
Posts: 209
Location: Dublin
Sarko is quite mistaken about the role played by Mandelson in the Irish result. The Irish Farmers Association was gullible enough to fall for “reassurances” from Cowen that the government would veto “anything bad for Ireland”. They fell for it hook line and sinker – not only supporting a Yes vote but actually encouraging it.

The Uk Times has some interesting quotes from Sarko!
http://www.smalllinks.com/535

Quote:
"They are bloody fools. They have been stuffing their faces at Europe's expense for years and now they dump us in the ****."


The Times goes on to say:

Quote:
"He then ordered his government to play down the 'no', proceed with their plans and find ways to save the treaty.” We have to manage the Irish 'no' with calm, with sang-froid and neither dramatise nor minimise it," he said last weekend.


It’s a pity that such quotes wouldn’t make it in to the Irish papers. Even so, he is digging himself a hole. That kind of thing would go down like a led balloon over here and the more he continues to shoot from the hip, the more damage he does to his own cause.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:15 pm 
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Location: Bradford
Peter wrote:
"RAENORTH wrote:Interestingly, the treaty is not formally ratified until the papers are lodged with the Italian government."

So this could still be fixed with a dead hooker or a horses head?


Well ... you know what those Italians are like!

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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:03 pm 
Does the rest of Europe know that the Prime Minister has put the treaty on hold, and can it be made to look as though it is to show solidarity with the Irish and Czechs ?


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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:09 pm 
Sarkozy blames Mandelson for Ireland's No vote.Don't you just love it when the Capos of Our Thing fall out ? No doubt Mandelson's Armani waistcoat will be delivered wrapped up with another bit of wet fish.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:13 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:15 am
Posts: 121
Location: Continental Europe
RAENORTH wrote:
latipa wrote:
I'm confused, doesn't the royal assent complete the ratification of the EU treaty in the UK? The deposition in Italy looks to be a mere diplomatic act to me.


You would not be so confused if you read the blog

Quote:
Although the ratification Bill was given royal assent on Thursday, the treaty is not actually formally ratified until the government deposits its "instruments of ratification" with the Italian government. According to an FCO spokesman, this has not yet happened, the plan being to do so "within weeks".


http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... gling.html


What if the FCO is wrong. If you assume the treaty being ratified by royal assent, while a case was still pending before a court, I'd be bringing contempt of court charges against Mr. Brown.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:23 pm 
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latipa wrote:
What if the FCO is wrong. If you assume the treaty being ratified by royal assent, while a case was still pending before a court, I'd be bringing contempt of court charges against Mr. Brown.


Don't "assume". Find out.

The successful passage of the Bill to royal assent is deemed to be parliamentary approval of ratification but is not, in itself, ratification. Parliament does not ratify treaties - the Crown does, acting on the "advice" of the government. The actual ratification of the treaty requires the drawing up of the specific "instrument of ratification", the Queen's signature on a warrant and the physical deposition of the "papers" (the instrument is actually drafted on goat's skin) in Rome.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:35 pm 
"the Queen's signature on a warrant and the physical deposition of the "papers" (the instrument is actually drafted on goat's skin) in Rome."

A scapegoat?


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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:51 pm 
RAENORTH wrote:
...requires...the Queen's signature on a warrant and the physical deposition of the "papers" (the instrument is actually drafted on goat's skin)....

It's nice to have such a quaint precedent.

We can skin Broon first and draw up his death warrant on the hide.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:04 pm 
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Peter wrote:
"the Queen's signature on a warrant and the physical deposition of the "papers" (the instrument is actually drafted on goat's skin) in Rome."

A scapegoat?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The people speak - sort of
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:13 pm 
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I can't see any references to constitutional issues. Don't the Irish give a flying f**k who makes their laws and their own Irish parliament becoming pointless?


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 Post subject: Re: The people speak - sort of
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:28 pm 
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Stuart wrote:
I can't see any references to constitutional issues. Don't the Irish give a flying f**k who makes their laws and their own Irish parliament becoming pointless?


I suspect that might reflect bias in the questioning. The "no" campaign certainly featured that issue ... especially with this poster:

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... s-way.html

There was also the "no2 foreign rule" poster.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:45 am 
Because I felt like it.

Charles Wolfe wrote:
The Burial of Sir John Moore after Corunna

Not a drum was heard, nor a funeral note,
As his corse to the rampart we hurried;
Not a soldier discharged his farewell shot
O'er the grave where our hero we buried.

We buried him darkly at dead of night,
The sods with our bayonets turning;
By the struggling moonbeam's misty light
And the lantern dimly burning.

No useless coffin enclosed his breast,
Nor in sheet nor in shroud we wound him;
But he lay like a warrior taking his rest
With his martial cloak around him.

Few and short were the prayers we said,
And we spoke not a word of sorrow;
But we steadfastly gazed on the face that was dead,
And we bitterly thought of the morrow.

We thought, as we hollowed his narrow bed
And smoothed down his lonely pillow,
That the foe and the stranger would tread o'er his head,
And we far away on the billow!

Lightly they'll talk of the spirit that's gone
And o'er his cold ashes upbraid him,–
But little he'll reck, if they let him sleep on
In the grave where a Briton has laid him.

But half of our heavy task was done
When the clock struck the hour for retiring:
And we heard the distant and random gun
That the foe was sullenly firing.

Slowly and sadly we laid him down,
From the field of his fame fresh and gory;
We carved not a line, and we raised not a stone,
But left him alone with his glory.


We'll be back.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:40 am 
Will Gordon Brown "rat" on the ratification?


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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:26 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 6700
Gordon Brown is the Rat in ratification?

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 Post subject: Re: Irish referendum thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:15 pm 
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Posts: 2153
Location: Pembrokeshre
Big business and the people who run them have this mentality that big is beautiful and small never works as well as big. But most businesses are small. small businesses are generally more nimble and flexible and live on their wits. Big business survive by being bigger, bullying their suppliers and squeezing the opposition out of the market.

The people who work in small businesses are usually better motivated and happier, people who work in businesses over a certain size tend to be less loyal and dis-spirited. Often big business counter this problem by decentralising decision making.

All generalisations I know, but then again the comments from big business about the EU are generalisations too.

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