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 Post subject: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:39 pm 
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"Too many eurosceptics spend their time sniping at each other, rather than turning their guns on the real enemy, which in this case is Brussels", writes Roger Helmer. This is in response to the open letter by Autonomous Mind, which triggered a response from myself and Boiling Frog, with a related piece by Witterings from Witney, who has been debunking the pseudo-sceptic John Redwood.

And now AM has come storming back with another piece, putting the lid on Helmer.

View full article here

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We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:34 am
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Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?


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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:15 pm
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Whilst the MPs can gorge themselves on easy-to-come-by expenses and the possibility of becoming an EU commissioner, they will never vote to take the UK out ot the EU.

Self first, self last and self in-between is their aim.


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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:34 pm
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Location: Hampshire
There are many different ways of supporting and advancing a cause. When it comes to getting us out of the EU, we can either stand up as individuals and declare our determination to support the various out factions, or we can join one of the main two parties and continue to make the case for withdrawal. Both are honorable roles. There is no way that the sceptics can achieve their aim until they become the majority. There is nothing treacherous in fighting for the cause of independence from the EU. What makes you believe that Roger Helmer or Dan Hannan are not genuine in their statements?

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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:09 pm
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Richard, good on you.


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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:11 am
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Location: Co. Durham
Farcebook has its uses...

Three surgeons are discussing who makes the best patients to operate on, the first surgeon said, "Electricians are the best, everything inside is colour coded." the second surgeon says, "No, I think librarians are, everything inside them is in alphabetical order" the third surgeon shut them up when he said: "You're all wrong, politicians are the easiest to operate on, there's no guts, no heart, no balls, no brains, and no spine, plus, the head and the arse are interchangeable"......

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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:47 pm 
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Derek wrote:
There are many different ways of supporting and advancing a cause. When it comes to getting us out of the EU, we can either stand up as individuals and declare our determination to support the various out factions, or we can join one of the main two parties and continue to make the case for withdrawal. Both are honorable roles. There is no way that the sceptics can achieve their aim until they become the majority. There is nothing treacherous in fighting for the cause of independence from the EU. What makes you believe that Roger Helmer or Dan Hannan are not genuine in their statements?


How can it be honourable to be a member of a party, the leader of which declares as its aim and policy the active membership of the European Union? If you subscribe to that, and call yourself a eurosceptic, you are a liar. If you don't subscribe to that, and stay within the party, you are a liar.

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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:23 pm 
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oh FFS chaps, all you need to know is Roger Helmer owned a 'teasmade'


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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:31 pm 
Back in November I attempted a summary of every Tory leader's treachery:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1008657&p=111216&hilit=heath+macmillan#p111216

And, sorry to bang the same drum yet again, here's Labour's Hugh Gaitskell speaking at conference in 1962, part of the "1,000 years of history" speech: "The Tories have been indulging in their usual double talk. When they go to Brussels they show the greatest enthusiasm for political union. When they speak in the House of Commons they are most anxious to aver that there is no commitment whatever to any political union."


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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:34 pm
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Location: Hampshire
Richard, it is quite possible to belong to a party without agreeing to or supporting every policy which that party's leadership puts forward. All parties are in fact coalitions. Are you suggesting that parties do not change their policy in response to changes in the views of those in the party? You seem to suggest that Hannan and Helmer are being disingenuous when they say that they want to see the UK withdraw from the EU. Have you any direct evidence for that?

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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:18 pm 
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Derek wrote:
Richard, it is quite possible to belong to a party without agreeing to or supporting every policy which that party's leadership puts forward. All parties are in fact coalitions. Are you suggesting that parties do not change their policy in response to changes in the views of those in the party? You seem to suggest that Hannan and Helmer are being disingenuous when they say that they want to see the UK withdraw from the EU. Have you any direct evidence for that?


It is generally the case that where you see sweeping changes in the status quo, they come from outside the party system, not from within it. The parties are the guardians of the status quo. They are resistant to change, and reward obedience. Therefore, it is very unlikely that anyone within the party system will effect so fundamental a change as our withdrawal from the EU from within the party system.

However, it is very easy to be a "licensed dissident" within the system, and it is very much in the interest of the political parties to bring dissidents into the fold, not to accommodate them, but to neutralise them. Thus, whether Hannan and Helmer are genuine or not is irrelevant. The fact is that they act as the Judas goats, neutralising dissent and blocking change. Thus, their words are incompatible with their actions.

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We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:51 pm 
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There are more troubled times ahead, the Eurozone continues to crumble whilst the Tory party look at their navel.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-201 ... 11325.html

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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:47 am 
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Or just an opportunity to rally around the flag...

Beneficial Crisis

Quote:
"When markets are dysfunctional, we have a problem," Mr. Trichet said. He said governments will have the power to deal with this problem once the European Financial Stability Facility, the euro-zone sovereign rescue fund, gets newly agreed powers to buy sovereign debt on the secondary market.

"The fact that markets are dysfunctional is the responsibility of governments," he said.


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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:44 am 
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Location: EU East Midlands Region of the former UK
I've been looking for that golden Franglais speech by Ted Heath.
I saw it on the telly in 1973-ish, back in the days when I still watched telly.
Mingled comedy and hideous embarrassment -- it was a moment to treasure.
The joke's on us, of course, as we all knew at the time.
Can anyone supply a link?


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 Post subject: Re: The enemy within
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:31 am 
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Aurelian wrote:
I've been looking for that golden Franglais speech by Ted Heath.
I saw it on the telly in 1973-ish, back in the days when I still watched telly.
Mingled comedy and hideous embarrassment -- it was a moment to treasure.
The joke's on us, of course, as we all knew at the time.
Can anyone supply a link?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HObl54LdffQ

Is that it?

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