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 Post subject: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:40 am 
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Easily led and with all the tactical acumen of a one-legged budgerigar, the Tory faithful are trilling over the "success" of their Boy in Libya – heedless of the fact, as Peter Hitchens warns, that we are unleashing forces the like of which we have little knowledge, and every reason to fear.

Worst of all though – with the complicity of the increasingly dire MSM - this ill-considered adventure has diverted attention from the slow-motion train-wreck of the Afghan policy, where feral soldiers are rejoicing in blood lust that defies the very essence of a measured counter-insurgency campaign.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:32 am 
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...where feral soldiers are rejoicing in blood lust that defies the very essence of a measured counter-insurgency campaign.

Whatever one may like to call it we are not wanted there.
Imagine 'calling in' Argentinian & Brasilian forces to put down (kill) quarreling British people in NI PDT_Armataz_01_23
Now who in the hell would countenance that?
The only possible reason for banning the Hunting Club badges is that they aren't part of the official uniform...I recall that in WW2 most things that moved were plastered with Politically Incorrect pics & slogans...PC & fighting do not mix well.

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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:36 am 
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Peter Hitchens will probably be proved right, only time will tell?

Thought the bit at the bottom of his page about the police was spot on too, a 1,000 criminals in the ranks now and those are only the ones they know about? It takes one to catch one?


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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:59 am 
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pipesmoker wrote:
Thought the bit at the bottom of his page about the police was spot on too, a 1,000 criminals in the ranks now and those are only the ones they know about? It takes one to catch one?

Presumably that is why the on-line version says "Comments are closed for legal reasons", but the police bit is actually missing from the on-line version.


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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:02 am 
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Techno wrote:
pipesmoker wrote:
Thought the bit at the bottom of his page about the police was spot on too, a 1,000 criminals in the ranks now and those are only the ones they know about? It takes one to catch one?

Presumably that is why the on-line version says "Comments are closed for legal reasons", but the police bit is actually missing from the on-line version.


Too right ... we cannot possibly have any online discussion about inadequate plods.

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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:20 am 

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I have a feeling that, from Belgrade to Basra to Helmand, Tony Blair tried to magic a "Falklands Effect" for himself. It was certainly something which Labour envied the Tories for achieving. Kinnock was absolutely livid at the surge of support for the Thatcher government which it caused.

Cameron with his ambition to be the "heir to Blair" is trying to do the same. The Falklands was a real war where real British people had been invaded by pretty beastly fascists. These latter day "humanitarian" wars are basically vanity wars for the government - trying and failing to show that "Britain punches above its weight" - with no wider resonance outside the official/political bubble.

Of course, the MSM can be relied upon for a bit of hype about "our boys" now and again and old fashioned concepts like honour and duty have more or less vanished in other parts of our national life. One wonders how long the armed forces will go on keeping their oaths of loyalty at the cost of their lives whilst their orderscontinue to come from politicians who have conspicuously not kept theirs for decades.


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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:35 am 
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edward wrote:
I have a feeling that, from Belgrade to Basra to Helmand, Tony Blair tried to magic a "Falklands Effect" for himself. It was certainly something which Labour envied the Tories for achieving. Kinnock was absolutely livid at the surge of support for the Thatcher government which it caused.

Cameron with his ambition to be the "heir to Blair" is trying to do the same. The Falklands was a real war where real British people had been invaded by pretty beastly fascists. These latter day "humanitarian" wars are basically vanity wars for the government - trying and failing to show that "Britain punches above its weight" - with no wider resonance outside the official/political bubble.

Of course, the MSM can be relied upon for a bit of hype about "our boys" now and again and old fashioned concepts like honour and duty have more or less vanished in other parts of our national life. One wonders how long the armed forces will go on keeping their oaths of loyalty at the cost of their lives whilst their orderscontinue to come from politicians who have conspicuously not kept theirs for decades.


With the "Taliban Hunting club", the Afghan adventure seems to have degenerated into a tawdry killing-fest. Soldiers posted to theatre have no illusions that they are going to achieve anything, so the idea is to get in there, bag a Taliban, pick up a campaign medal and get out in one piece. This is not how it was meant to be - not a lot of "hearts and minds" going down.

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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:52 am 

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Must be a retail opportunity here somewhere for those Taliban badges.


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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Flashman wrote:
Must be a retail opportunity here somewhere for those Taliban badges.
`

I am sure someone has already thought of that.

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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:19 pm 

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I've never understood why we, ISAF - whatever, don't just simply buy up, outbid - hoover up the opium [we need it in the West, for medical purposes] ie, the bloody Taliban's 'income' - yeah I know they have money from alternative sources, notably nicking off the ISAF supply routes, baksheesh and funnelling 'funds' from Karzai's Kleptocracy.

But then there's always this............[forlorn] hope springs eternal?!

Quote:
HELMAND, Afghanistan (August 20, 2011)- More than 85 children from around Sangin attended the Sangin Youth Outreach Shura held by Female Engagement Teams assigned to 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, at Forward Operating Base Jackson, Aug. 17.

“It is important to work with the youth of Sangin because just like the kids in the U.S., they want to grow up to be something,” said Sgt. Juanita Towns, the FET 13 team leader. “So it is just best that we try to start them off on the right path at a young age vice letting them join the (insurgency) now.”

When on patrol with the battalion’s infantry squads the team members spread the word about the youth shuras and have recently had Afghan Uniformed Police officers help them in their endeavor to reach out to the children of Sangin.


"Sangin Youth Outreach Surah"................Lordy Moses.


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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:13 pm 
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Ravenscar wrote:
I've never understood why we, ISAF - whatever, don't just simply buy up, outbid - hoover up the opium [we need it in the West, for medical purposes] ie, the bloody Taliban's 'income' - yeah I know they have money from alternative sources, notably nicking off the ISAF supply routes, baksheesh and funnelling 'funds' from Karzai's Kleptocracy.


Because less than five percent of the land area available for cultivation is used for opium ... if you bought up the crop, all that would happen is that the land area put down for the poppy would be increased, so you end up with a licit and illicit trade running alongside each other.

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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Because less than five percent of the land area available for cultivation is used for opium ... if you bought up the crop, all that would happen is that the land area put down for the poppy would be increased, so you end up with a licit and illicit trade running alongside each other.

..........."Does that mean that we lose?"
"Yes it does...but it also means that you don't win."

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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:37 pm 

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RAENORTH wrote:
Because less than five percent of the land area available for cultivation is used for opium ... if you bought up the crop, all that would happen is that the land area put down for the poppy would be increased, so you end up with a licit and illicit trade running alongside each other.


Dr. N, I remember a few years ago you did a very in depth assessment of the campaign in Afghanistan.

It struck me at the time as being bang on the money, particularly with regard to improving the roads to enable farmers to bring their goods to market. The construction of which the Taliban would not be able to ignore, thus forcing them to fight at a place of our choosing.

Were your suggestions ever picked up by anyone at the time? I seem to remember an MoD troll on the forum once, so I guess someone must have noticed your work.

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 Post subject: Re: No "Falklands effect" for the Boy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Puffineater wrote:
RAENORTH wrote:
Because less than five percent of the land area available for cultivation is used for opium ... if you bought up the crop, all that would happen is that the land area put down for the poppy would be increased, so you end up with a licit and illicit trade running alongside each other.


Dr. N, I remember a few years ago you did a very in depth assessment of the campaign in Afghanistan.

It struck me at the time as being bang on the money, particularly with regard to improving the roads to enable farmers to bring their goods to market. The construction of which the Taliban would not be able to ignore, thus forcing them to fight at a place of our choosing.

Were your suggestions ever picked up by anyone at the time? I seem to remember an MoD troll on the forum once, so I guess someone must have noticed your work.


The message was delivered and understood .. and partially implemented ... but only in a limited manner. There were (and are) structural problems in the delivery agencies, and the turf wars are far more deadly than merely fighting the Taliban.

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