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 Post subject: Too thick to learn
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:25 pm 
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Two recent offerings demonstrate why the Tories are going nowhere on the European Union. The first comes via Autonomous Mind in two tranches, an Open Letter to Roger Helmer and a rebuttal of the great man's comments. The second is a piece from arch Speccytwat James Forsyth in the Mail on Sunday.

Turning to the Roger Helmer effort, this demonstrates, beyond peradventure, that the man really is not a eurosceptic – merely a Tory timeserver, who serves to garner votes in support of a cause that inherently favours European political integration.

View full article here

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We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


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 Post subject: Re: Too thick to learn
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:41 pm 
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RAENORTH wrote:
.. but it is Tories of which we speak. "Too thick to learn" might be their real party slogan.
"Liars through and through" might be even more appropriate.


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 Post subject: Re: Too thick to learn
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
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It is a peculiar wheeze, played by the boys of the 'remove' to shout, rage - full of their infamous and supercilious bombastic nonsense, they make play of us, some [of us - we, the poor old proletariat] - though can see right through you, you arrogant bastards.

It is why [though I quite like a certain - DT blogger] I can never understand his stance, or pretence, who, or what is he pretending to? Playing both ends against the middle is a risky business, then though - there is the money I suppose.


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 Post subject: Re: Too thick to learn
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
Posts: 1441
Aurelian,

Quote:
"Liars through and through" might be even more appropriate.


"Liars through and through" - always but always - 'a given'!


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 Post subject: Re: Too thick to learn
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:03 pm 
"The Tories have been indulging in their usual double talk. When they go to Brussels they show the greatest enthusiasm for political union. When they speak in the House of Commons they are most anxious to aver that there is no commitment whatever to any political union." - Hugh Gaitskell, 1962

The Tories have been lying about the EU for 50 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Too thick to learn
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:53 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1862
Quote:
And there lies the constant and continuous deception. If, after nearly forty years, the Conservative Party has not yet moved in a Eurosceptic direction, then it is a fair bet that it never will. Yet, year after year, decade after decade, the Myrtle tendency wants us to discard the evidence of our own eyes and believe that one day the impossible will happen and the Tories will lead us out of the European Union.

I guess the only chance of that is once the EU is in ruins. And still they would try to take the credit for it.

If being in the EU is so wonderful for us all and the Conservatives are responsible for some of the major parts of our connection to the continent why do they never crow about it?


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 Post subject: Re: Too thick to learn
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:03 pm
Posts: 437
Indeed, Dr.N:
Quote:
Most of all though, it ignores the reality of the European Union – regulation is not an à la carte option. Adoption of the acquis communautaire is an essential and inseparable part of our membership of the European Union.

However, the froggish in there reminds me of the refrain in an old Jamaican calypso:
"Carry me ackee go a Linstead Market, not a quottie would sell..."
We don't and shouldn't buy it. Nothing is legal about the eu legislation in this country, whether or not it presents itself as the only menu.

Your corollary is logical: "The only way out, is to get out [of the 'market'] – to leave the EU entirely."


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 Post subject: Re: Too thick to learn
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:59 pm 
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euSSR Go Home wrote:
Your corollary is logical: "The only way out, is to get out [of the 'market'] – to leave the EU entirely."



Yet that is what they seek to avoid saying.

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 Post subject: Re: Too thick to learn
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:06 am 
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Re: Roger Helmer...

In the first AM piece, a commenter (Jeremy Poynton) posted the following:

Quote:
But it is not going to happen, is it Roger, as the EU brooks no opposition and will break its own laws if it has to – as we have seen from the bailouts. Clearly. none of the major party has the balls to stand up for democracy. It took me forty years of voting to vote Tory (in desperation to get Labour out again) and about 12 months to realise I wouldn’t vote Tory again. Or Labour. Or LibDem.
Who exactly DO you represent?


To which Mr. Helmer replied in the second piece:

Quote:
Jeremy Poynton: “Exactly who do you represent?”. (I think you mean “whom”). I represent about 4.2 million people in the East Midlands, and I have been elected top of the list on three successive occasions — 99, 04, 09. I think my democratic legitimacy probably exceeds that of most correspondents to AM.


He is of course completely wrong... He represents the CONservative party, who have given him a place on their list for election to the EP. And of course everything you have said about that party Richard is correct.

There may well be 4.2 million people in that region, but the CONservative party represents none of them or their interests, just like all of the other parties don't (including UKIP!), they only represent their own, and none of them have any power or influence over the EU politburo either... The politburo has designed it that way in a carbon copy of its erstwhile parallel, the soviet politburo.

Helmer is either confused or downright dishonest.

As you suggest he is just another drainpipe climber, mind you he could be worse, he could be like David Campbell-Bannerman who doesn't even represent his party's interests, only his own.


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 Post subject: Re: Too thick to learn
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:52 am
Posts: 841
The John Redwood column is amusing today. He has the results of a ballot of what people wanted the government to do, overwhelmingly the opposite of what it is doing. He sent a letter to Eustace praising him for his new stance of EUroscepticism. It was all most hilarious. I had to post a comment on the first since he thinks we can choose what we want and veto anything we do not like. With apologies to your colleague, I did filch her comment that we do not have a relationship with the EU but are part of it. It fitted so well. Cloud cuckoo land, it's what we do in his land. PDT_Armataz_01_14


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 Post subject: Re: Too thick to learn
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:11 pm 
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Derek W Buxton wrote:
The John Redwood column is amusing today. He has the results of a ballot of what people wanted the government to do, overwhelmingly the opposite of what it is doing. He sent a letter to Eustace praising him for his new stance of EUroscepticism. It was all most hilarious. I had to post a comment on the first since he thinks we can choose what we want and veto anything we do not like. With apologies to your colleague, I did filch her comment that we do not have a relationship with the EU but are part of it. It fitted so well. Cloud cuckoo land, it's what we do in his land. PDT_Armataz_01_14


WfW has some interesting comments ...

http://witteringwitney.blogspot.com/201 ... ic_29.html

I think my views on Redwood are well known ... but it does look as if the Tories are crawling out from under their stones.

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