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 Post subject: The real looters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:11 am 
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Booker has done me proud in his column, putting the "real looters" on the map. Our prisons may be bulging with teenagers who walked off with trainers and TV sets which didn't belong to them, he writes.

But, while our Government is still having to borrow £3 billion every week to cover the shortfall in paying for our bloated public sector, the most blatant "looting" epidemic of all appears to rage on wholly unchecked.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: The real looters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:23 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:44 am
Posts: 293
What I am going to find fascinating when all this implodes and we have the overdue accounting (in a wholly peaceful and gentle manner of course without a hint of aggression on the part of the 'masses'. An accounting that I personally only advocate by the use of the blind, impartial majesty of serene law) is that they will still try to justify their positions on the basis of some higher service or other. The complexities of which are beyond the understanding of the common man.

But definitely no gross and primal savagery though when it all kicks off....A very British coup one might say....

Anything else would be improper.








For the record I need some dental work.


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 Post subject: Re: The real looters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:51 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:11 am
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Location: Co. Durham
I saw rope packs of 20m @ £3.99 & was struggling to think of a use for it!

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 Post subject: Re: The real looters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:20 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:44 am
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DaveEvans wrote:
I saw rope packs of 20m @ £3.99 & was struggling to think of a use for it!




The only possible use would be for lashing of items on deck. Sail-hauling, that kind of thing.

Also useful for towing purposes and support if arrayed evenly around the erection to be thus supported.


and ligatures.


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 Post subject: Re: The real looters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:11 am 
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Location: England
As Magna Carta ensured trial by jury and I'm sure whatever law says they can bang you up for non-payment of council tax did not expressly repeal MC and Judge Laws said "Constitutional" statutues can only be expressly repealed, maybe withhold council tax on your grounds and demand a trial by jury.


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 Post subject: Re: The real looters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:52 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:57 am
Posts: 20
There are always problems with power, but the serious problems always start when people get the power to *award themselves more power* (awarding yourself a pay rise is just one aspect of this). This applies in any sector, whether public, private, charity, etc, and at any level, whether local council, national government or the EU.

Almost everyone who has this power will eventually use it in some way. This might be done gradually, to avoid alerting too many of those who are losing power, but it will be done. It very rarely happens that those with this power voluntarily reduce their power. Reducing the power these people have is something that has to be done by others (sometimes, unfortunately, by force).


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 Post subject: Re: The real looters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:03 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:01 am
Posts: 183
thejones wrote:
DaveEvans wrote:
I saw rope packs of 20m @ £3.99 & was struggling to think of a use for it!




The only possible use would be for lashing of items on deck. Sail-hauling, that kind of thing.

Also useful for towing purposes and support if arrayed evenly around the erection to be thus supported.


and ligatures.


What about good old fashioned keel-hauling?
PDT_Armataz_02_11


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 Post subject: Re: The real looters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:27 am 
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Crumble wrote:
There are always problems with power, but the serious problems always start when people get the power to *award themselves more power* (awarding yourself a pay rise is just one aspect of this). This applies in any sector, whether public, private, charity, etc, and at any level, whether local council, national government or the EU.

Almost everyone who has this power will eventually use it in some way. This might be done gradually, to avoid alerting too many of those who are losing power, but it will be done. It very rarely happens that those with this power voluntarily reduce their power. Reducing the power these people have is something that has to be done by others (sometimes, unfortunately, by force).


Interestingly, the process started in 1972 with local government reorganisation. It was that which brought in the CEOs ... and it has since taken forty years for the breed to consolidate its position and completely neutralise any external control.

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 Post subject: Re: The real looters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:49 am 
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RAENORTH wrote:

Interestingly, the process started in 1972 with local government reorganisation. It was that which brought in the CEOs ... and it has since taken forty years for the breed to consolidate its position and completely neutralise any external control.


So what are county councillors doing about this? Surely they have control over the CEO's. The CC's have to answer to an electorate in theory so is there any way we can apply pressure through the CC's to bring to hilt this plunder?

1972 seems to be the same year something else bad happened to our state.


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 Post subject: Re: The real looters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:27 am 
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Stuart wrote:
RAENORTH wrote:

Interestingly, the process started in 1972 with local government reorganisation. It was that which brought in the CEOs ... and it has since taken forty years for the breed to consolidate its position and completely neutralise any external control.


So what are county councillors doing about this? Surely they have control over the CEO's. The CC's have to answer to an electorate in theory so is there any way we can apply pressure through the CC's to bring to hilt this plunder?

1972 seems to be the same year something else bad happened to our state.


The two were linked ... they both happened on Heath's watch ... and both contributed to the revolution in the way we are governed.

As to electoral pressure, you have to get past the party system ... that won't happen in a hurry. And when all parties support the status quo, you are not going to get any change, especially when the councillors now have their fingers in the till.

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 Post subject: Re: The real looters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:12 pm 
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Copying this straight across from Bookers comment section - because it is so well explained:

"christinem
1 hour ago
Recommended by
7 people
Anyone who has faced redundancy knows it’s pretty awful and most of us will feel some sympathy for anyone finding themselves in that situation, but many of you will have heard and read about the obscene amounts of money being paid out to some senior staff made redundant from their jobs in local government.

Most of you will be surprised and possibly angered. ‘The rich get rich and the poor get poorer’, never did the words of this old song ring more true than today. Statutory redundancy pay is calculated as up to 30 weeks' pay, depending on age and length of service. The statutory weekly pay amount is limited to a maximum of £400 – presumably to protect the employer – but my council has seen fit to waive this weekly pay ceiling. Not just to be a little more generous (which may well have been acceptable to most of us), but to get rid of it altogether, and use actual weekly pay. The floodgates are well and truly open.

As far as local councils are concerned, who makes these decisions? Could it be that our elected councillors are overly influenced by the executives who benefit from them? Bearing in mind that the weekly pay of an Executive earning £150,000 per annum is getting on for £2,900, it’s not difficult to see where some of these ridiculous redundancy payments are coming from. In my council area the only limit applied is a maximum of x 30 weeks, currently enhanced to a maximum of x 40 weeks for voluntary redundancy.

This is extraordinarily generous especially when one considers it is financed by the public purse. Yes, the funds (£10 million has been set aside) may be coming from the Council’s reserves, but it should not be forgotten that this is our money, held by the Council on our behalf. The County claims that cutting management posts will save around £36 million over the next four years, so the up front costs are worth it. We say that if they had stayed even with their compulsory redundancy scheme the savings would have been substantially more.

Here is an example: Employee, 50 years old, 15 years service, salary £75K (average for a senior manager)Basic statutory scheme payment £8,000County Council’s compulsory scheme payment £28,000County Council’s enhanced voluntary scheme payment £56,000 The Leader of the Council says that this generous redundancy pay is deserved. (I fail to see why local government employees are more deserving than the rest of us.) The Scheme is open to all employees, but let’s concentrate on the 150 senior managers whom the Council is looking to lose and who are being encouraged to take advantage of this Enhanced Voluntary Redundancy Scheme. They have received very high salaries, possibly bonuses or honorariums in the recent past.

These high salaries, accompanied by an employer’s contribution to the Local Government Pension Scheme of around 19% on top of those salaries, lead to the sort of pensions most of us can only dream of, and of course, to these very high redundancy payments. If they are aged 55 or over, they will upon redundancy be entitled to the immediate, unreduced payment of LGPS benefits on top of their redundancy money.

It is being said that for those senior people who are close to retirement anyway, this could be quite a good deal. The Council, predictably, says that whatever payment they get needs to be enough not to leave them struggling. “Struggling”? We don’t think so. And let’s admit it, how many of us – in their shoes – wouldn’t be jostling for a place in the queue?

I am contributing to this out of my pension as all other council taxpayers and income tax payers do from their often meagre salaries. The claim that the public sector is lower paid than the private sector is now something that no longer applies and hasn’t done so for many years – and yet the terms and conditions of employment give them the cream, while we, the employer, in many cases go without. Isn’t it about time that the tax payer is given some protection from a public sector eager only to please its own employees?

The Council says that this money is available because of savings made over the years. Good financial management, saving for a rainy day. Yes, Isitfair acknowledges this. But we find it very difficult to agree this is the best way of using money that may soon, in these hard times, be needed elsewhere.

So, at a time when we are supposed to be cutting back, the only excuse we can gain from the councils is that the payments are being made from savings, and, wait for it, that their package is not so generous as the next council, or as the Civil Service or the NHS. WHAT? Whichever way you look at it, the money is coming from your pocket. Try telling that to the councillors. Most of them (and possibly their executives) can spin for England and if you are not careful they will have you believing that they are right.

And remember, this is not happening in just one council, it is happening all over the country.

Councillors must take this opportunity to renegotiate terms of redundancy either with staff or unions, never again must this preferential treatment, because that is exactly what it is, be allowed to cost the council tax payer and the tax payer a small fortune.

To give them more power to their elbow we suggest that the government take urgent steps to amend the legislation which has enabled the floodgates to be opened - Early Termination of Employment (Discretionary Compensation) (England and Wales) Regulations 2006. Please don’t tell us this isn’t possible, Mr Pickles, we’re sure you can find a way. No such word as “can’t”.

Incidentally, many of our members have contacted us on this subject, most of them asking the same question. If the Council is in a position to make these people redundant now, why were they employed in the first place? And being rather cynical, how many of these redundant senior managers will turn up as consultants in a few months time?"

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