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 Post subject: A green agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:56 am 
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One cannot be sure whether it is The Times or little Willie but someone here is fanatical about recycling. We read what at first sight looks new. William Hague, we are told, yesterday became the first member of the Tory leadership to predict a Conservative victory next year and said that his party was psychologically prepared for government.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: A green agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:43 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
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Quote:
named by David Cameron as his "deputy in all but name"


named by David Cameron as his "brain cell"

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 Post subject: Re: A green agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:19 am 
The "Conservative" Party are just a bunch of fat frat boys waiting to have their turn.

I honestly don't know what's worse: A "Tory" party that lies and cheats about the changes it will make, or a Labour party that lies and cheats about the changes it will make. Both, all the while, reassuring the EU that nothing will change.

...speaking as an expat of course.


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 Post subject: Re: A green agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:25 am 
E.U. matters won't be left "there", wherever that may be; they'll be moving towards E.U. supremacy as it has been for many years now. And manifesto pledges? We know what they amount to.

The Conservative Party will be elected, no doubt for the simple reason that Labour have, as expected, failed in their primary task. Hannan is political theatre, there to attract the 'anti-E.U.': he has no power. Their agenda is simple: hold the State Ship of Opposition on course no matter what. The matters of governance, who cares anymore? As I hear often, we're all going to die anyway!

This Opposition is a party of apathy, breeding the pathogen -- one the media is fatally compromised with -- which created its present incarnation.


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 Post subject: Re: A green agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:51 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:14 am
Posts: 312
Location: The Heights of High Wycombe
Remember the advert for Hamlet cigars? "A large, expensive cigar, in everything, but size and price".

Likewise the Tories, "A truthful and trustworthy party, in everything, but veracity and dependability".

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 Post subject: Re: A green agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:26 am 
All this will they or won't they garbage explains why Cameron isn't in any rush to get Brown out of office just yet. He's hoping for an EU fait accompli before he slips his backside into the hot seat so he can dodge the issue once and forever. The main reason why I won't be voting for the spineless sod.


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 Post subject: Re: A green agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:59 am 
If some of the Sunday papers use what has been sent to them then David Cameron is about to get a 'wake up call'!

The Times article is nothing more than a 'tease' by Hague on the subject of a post-ratification referendum in order to try and secure Eurosceptic votes and is disingenious to say the least, but hey disingeniousness and honesty seem to go 'hand-in-hand' with politicians. Just as important, if they were to promise a post-ratification referendum, is to also tell us what would be the question(s)!

As I have said before David Cameron has nailed his colours firmly to the European fence on which he is sitting - for the good of the country it is about time he jumped off it! I have nothing but the same contempt for David Cameron as he appears to be showing not only the country, but his own constituents by refusing to publicly debate the question of Britain's membership of the EU.


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 Post subject: Re: A green agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:29 am 
I don't think " we have missed anything". Hague is only repeating the same old mantra in a continuing attempt to convince the Tory "faithful" that a Conservative government would do something to save us from the clutches of the EU and The Times is faithfully repeating the line to reassure those voters who are tempted to lend their votes to UKIP who, whatever you say, is the only party telling the truth.


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 Post subject: Re: A green agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:48 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:17 pm
Posts: 1384
From the Times article:

Quote:
Mr Hague used the interview to reassure President Obama and European leaders that a Tory government would be “active, energetic and engaged members of the EU”.


Same old same old. "In Europe but not run by Europe", reform, repatriating powers..............................

Move along folks, nothing to see here.


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 Post subject: A green agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:28 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:32 am
Posts: 824
Location: Tasmania
Quote:
And then we get the punch line: "He left open the door to the possibility of the Tories promising a referendum in their election manifesto even if the treaty had been ratified by then."
In other words, nothing is different. Nothing has changed. One seriously wonders why this was published, or have we missed something?


It all depends how seriously Hague meant this. Perhaps he, & the Tory high command, have at last realized that if they want to offer a refererendum before the Lisbon Treaty is finalized, then why should that prevent them from having one afterwards instead - if need be? Similarly, if theTories are so against Lisbon before the other 26 have finally ratified the treaty, then why will they not continue to be against it afterwards?

The Tories have said that if the treaty is ratified before they gain government, they "will not leave it there". But what will they in fact do - or be able to do? Anything at all? And does the EU really need to care? Presumably the Tories have been so challenged about this issue by their more euro-opposing Tory supporters, that at last they are reacting. Or have they had EU officials trying to frighten them into submission by saying once Lisbon is signed, then it's "game over"? Or maybe Hague & Co. have finally worked it out for themselves that the EU could effectively ignore them, despite their being the UK government, unless they had a really convincing weapon to threaten the EU with - ie a UK referendum rejecting Lisbon even if it had already been ratified by then.

Even with a post-Lisbon ratification referendum under the Tories' belt, the EU (backed presumably by the ECJ) could ignore them on the grounds that the treaty now had legal legitimacy, & just because the UK wanted to effectively withdraw from the treaty would not invalidate other countries' acceptance of it. Indeed, I'd say that would be fair enough in law.

So what does this suggest? It suggests that at last the Tories have come to realize that only by being prepared to play hardball with the EU that they, the Tories, will have any chance of getting any concessions from Brussels. The EU will not want to make any concessions at all, because if Britain begins to get some worthwhile changes out of the EU, then some countries will object strongly to this - & other countries will want to jump on the reformist bandwagon too, putting all the EU's centrist aims in jeopardy.

So there's a lot at stake here. And it seems that at last the Tories may have realized that following the Lisbon Treaty referendum road to its logical conclusion may lead to a long battle with the EU, even though it's one that the UK can not keep on putting off for much longer - & that what is inevitable has at last to be faced, however fearsome that might at first seem to be!

Watchet


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 Post subject: Re: A green agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:57 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 6700
There is no-one in the spineless tory group-hug that could conceive how to do it.
(Actually it is easy, neither the Sovereign, nor, by Dicey, Parliament has the right to give away the country, they are expressly forbidden to do so in the 1689 Declaration of Rights which is the instrument that empowers the current Monarchy.)

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