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 Post subject: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:09 pm 
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In the wake of that BBC poll that showed 55 per cent of this country's population would like to see us out of the European Union and in the midst of a huge financial crisis (made far worse by our own government as well as the EU, to be absolutely fair) Better Off Out is being relaunched as a cross-party group in both Houses.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:18 pm 
Perhaps people might like to raise/debate Mr Redwood's non appearance on the Better Of Out campaign with him via his website? After all, like many Tories I have dealt with, he makes a great deal of his dislike for the EU.
http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:38 pm 
Better off out, is that a song or something
A reformed E.U. offers Britain the best posslble future, not just as a consolidated trading block, but as a real voice in world affairs.
But its current makeup cant offer what we need, its law making is opaque, the working of its MEPs are a mystery to most voters. We need to transform it into a true democracy, that offers transparency of action in all its works.

We can then move forward to a true democratic union of aligned states, most of Europe want an alliance of this I am sure,but not the one we have.

Get on the Libertas bandwagon and vote for a new Europe.

Oh and back tothe fish, yes, local people do make the best managers.


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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:53 pm 
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Billwestall wrote:
Better off out, is that a song or something
A reformed E.U. offers Britain the best posslble future, not just as a consolidated trading block, but as a real voice in world affairs.
But its current makeup cant offer what we need, its law making is opaque, the working of its MEPs are a mystery to most voters. We need to transform it into a true democracy, that offers transparency of action in all its works.

We can then move forward to a true democratic union of aligned states, most of Europe want an alliance of this I am sure,but not the one we have.

Get on the Libertas bandwagon and vote for a new Europe.

Oh and back tothe fish, yes, local people do make the best managers.


I think we've reached the limit of tolerance of your trolling, Billwestal. The EU cannot be transformed into a "true democracy" - period. Constantly repeating your mantra and plugging your fatuous Libertas isn't going to make it any different. Pack it in, or you get deleted.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 6700
Don't delete him, let's just play with him.
Quote:
We can then move forward to a true democratic union of aligned states,


Much as I like Europeans I have no wish to align with them and I certainly have no wish to be chained to a galley-slaves rowing bench. I think the big divide in politics now is no longer Left v. Right but rather those who believe in centralization and legislation and those who've seen its effects. History lays before you example after example of centralized power failing, if communism is too obvious for you try the Autro-Hungarian empire.
The centralization of power from Portugal to Bulgaria, from Sweden to Greece can never ever work. As you attempt to make legislation that is appropriate for a Scottish fisherman and an Alpine farmer it is inevitable that conformity brings compromise.

Saying this time it might be different sounds to us like a ten-year-old trying to persuade daddy that this time the tide won't knock down the sandcastle.

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 Post subject: Transparency
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 307
Billwestall wrote:
... A reformed E.U. offers Britain the best posslble future ...


Please list the various futures you considered together with their major characteristics.

Please detail the selection process which you employed to select the best possible future from all those which you considered.

Billwestall wrote:
... E.U. offers Britain ... a real voice in world affairs. ...


In which ways does it offer a real voice in UK affairs ?

In which ways is it preferable to have a real voice in world affairs rather than a real voice in UK affairs, or vice versa?

Please detail the exact sources and magnitudes of all Libertas funding. Transparently.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:18 am
Posts: 82
Shut up Bill Westall, the Eurocrats want burning like the maggots they are.

This is what the end of the EU will look like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u47x4MG9JH8


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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:42 pm 
"Whatever happened to the likes of John Redwood?"
The fact is that, notwithstanding his anti-EU comments etc, Redwood is a professional politician who, like many other Tories, is unwilling to commit himself to BOO because such action would not be acceptable to young Dave and would result in total failure to be accepted into the front-bench fold. One only has to note that several Conservative MPs who are members of the Freedom Association (TFA) - whose declared policy is to get out of the EU - will not sign up to BOO for this reason. Note that some who are even members of TFA council are not willing to put their heads above the parapet. Career progression is so much more important than principle.


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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
Posts: 4434
More power to their elbows and well done.

and it does have a very catchy name.


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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:36 pm 
"Pack it in, or you get deleted."

I love it. I'm sick of all tossers who think that you can reform things from within. Some things are unreformable and the EU is one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:12 am 
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Jack T wrote:
"Pack it in, or you get deleted."

I love it. I'm sick of all tossers who think that you can reform things from within. Some things are unreformable and the EU is one of them.


Clearly I agree with your opinion but that is not why the threat was made. Billwestall is clearly a Libertas troll who has nothing much to say apart from repeating the line about voting Libertas and we do not need that. If he has any sensible arguments as to why and how the EU can be reformed I, for one, would like to know what they are. Certainly, nobody at Libertas has been able to answer that question. PDT_Armataz_01_28


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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:22 am 
Don't delete Bill Wasterall. He's fun :-)

Bill, listen, the whole EU enterprise has been undemocratic from the start. The "members of the EU parliament" are window dressing. They do not formulate laws nor vet regulations. They even know it; this is why the members spend most of their energies in maximising their expense accounts and stashing the cash. Nothing better to do.

Also, if they play their cards right, they might be able to become a COMMISSIONER. Now, there's real power!


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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:28 am 
Sandy Rham:

"Much as I like Europeans I have no wish to align with them"

Well, except, perhaps, Sophia Loren :-P

Sorry ... couldn't resist.


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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:46 am 
I have a great new line for Libertas, "In Europe, but not run by Europe." Catchy eh? Oh wait, I think another allegedly anti EU party has used if before.

I will be voting UKIP at the Euros. Out of Europe and not governed by it.


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 Post subject: Re: Better Off Out relaunched
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:00 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:06 pm
Posts: 78
In the course of the renewed activity of the BOO Campaign, I hope that they will call on the public to vote UKIP on June 4th. Lords Pearson of Rannoch and Willoughby de Broke did this last time in 2004 and forfeited CP membership. Stuart Wheeler this time - a fine role model for all Eurorealists.


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