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 Post subject: Biter bit / Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:34 pm 
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Biter bit

Defence questions yesterday brought up a rash of questions on the A400M, but first in the offing was a question on the "air bridge" – the RAF shuttle service between the UK and the operational theatres. That brought an intervention from Conservative shadow defence secretary which had him walking into a bear trap, eyes wide closed.

Launching into the attack, the egregious Fox demanded that defence secretary John Hutton admit that the main reason for the constant delays experienced in the service was "simply that the TriStars we are using are clapped out, with only 44 percent of the fleet fit for purpose".

View full article here

Crash and burn …

Now admitting the obvious, Thomas Enders, chief executive of EADS has conceded that the ill-fated Airbus A400M project may have to be scrapped. "The aircraft can't be built under the current conditions," he has told Der Spiegel. "It is better to put an end to the horror than have horror without end."

This is brought to us courtesy of The Daily Telegraph tucked into a down-page piece in the business section, which in itself is remarkable. In any grown-up newspaper, such a story – with its massive political and strategic implications should be front-page news.

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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:12 pm 
As usual, this is what happens when you engineer something by committee across different companies, countries, and end-user requirements (and try and protect jobs by pork-barrel), rather than taking the time to understand the requirements of a specific customer in a specific market, and engineering a product to suit. This is a consistent pattern, affecting vehicles, radios, planes, missiles and boats.....why does nobody join the dots.


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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:16 pm 
To which I would add, outfits like the MoD make Apalling customers. Never know what they want, always changing requirements (even after 'design freeze'!!), and because they are the sole buyer and the money is normally in a huge chunk, it can't be just a normal engineering project. Oh No. It has to be a 'Systems Project'. When you see that phrase, add 00's to the eventual cost of completion. Just because the MoD want a unique 'systems solution', we have to tolerate this!


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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:21 pm 
Quote:
The aircraft is over-weight, its turbo-prop engines built by Rolls-Royce and France's Snecma are under-powered...


Well clearly the solution is already mapped out. We cut the thing in two, add a new middle section and rename it the R101. What could go wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
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Hmm, just as the G20 forms. So Merkel is prepared to write off French jobs?
This is a Merkel Sarkosy power play, and he'll be livid PDT_Armataz_01_22 PDT_Armataz_01_22

Hmm, surely if the A400M falls then the A380 and Airbus fall, which will take down EADS ?

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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:46 pm 
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History repeating itself wrote:
Quote:
The aircraft is over-weight, its turbo-prop engines built by Rolls-Royce and France's Snecma are under-powered...


Well clearly the solution is already mapped out. We cut the thing in two, add a new middle section and rename it the R101. What could go wrong?


By the time the lifting capacity is down to 22 tons, we could simply rename it the Euro-Hercules ... the A130M. Double the price, and sell less for more ... the European way!

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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:47 pm 
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History repeating itself wrote:
Quote:
The aircraft is over-weight, its turbo-prop engines built by Rolls-Royce and France's Snecma are under-powered...


Well clearly the solution is already mapped out. We cut the thing in two, add a new middle section and rename it the R101. What could go wrong?


Don't forget the Spanish ... the thing is being built in Spain. As they say, the plane in Spain flies mainly on the plain ... 'cos it can't get airborne.

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 Post subject: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:32 am
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Location: Tasmania
One consolation: if the RAF orders more C17s, all of them (unless its a double-digit order) are likely be delivered by the end of 2010, & available for early use supplying our people in Afghanistan while the war there is still on! The originally planned 25 plane order for the A400M, if it had ever worked out, would not have been completed until about 2017 at best - hopefully long after the Afghan operations would have passed their toughest time.

How many C17s? Well more C130Js would also be a good idea, though their production line is fully committed until the end of 2012/early 2013, as I understand it. But 25 A400Ms, following the strengthening of the euro in relation to the UKL & the US$, would have worked out at about $3.5 billion - ie about 16 - 17 C17s, though 11 would have been able to carry the same load as the orignal 25 A400M's specifications required. And what with all the stimulus money flying around (though, true, not much of it would be spent in Britain in the C17 & C130Js' cases), it will be interesting to see what emerges.

Watchet


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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:07 pm 

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 6:12 pm
Posts: 334
Location: LINCOLN
I seem to recall an idea to purchase "green" Il 76's airframes from Russia with the Powerplant, electrics and other bits from off the shelf western suppliers. Does anyone remember about this.

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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
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Yr right that should be front page news and in large bold type, but of course the Green Tosser doesn't do the EU, so it gets slipped out like this......

But what a wonderfull example of all that is wrong with the EU and looking at the Zero tdy, that too is crashing and burning...except against the poor old pound.

We really are in the end game now for the EU.


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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:27 pm
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Location: Oxford, UK
Apropos of the Il-76, is there anyone who hasn't seen this?

http://russianfun.net/only-in-russia/ex ... -take-off/

Listen to the comment at the end..


Yes, I think we'll need to do something about the powerplant.


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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:17 pm 
If the various Euro nations bail EADS out of this mess it is going to open up a HUGE opportunity for Boeing in the next round of Tanker procurement.


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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:41 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:10 am
Posts: 100
"If the various Euro nations bail EADS out of this mess it is going to open up a HUGE opportunity for Boeing in the next round of Tanker procurement."

Sorry mate. If the ratbags in congress cannot have open and unfair competition the USAF will just have to do without a replacement.


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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:05 am 
From the post by Helen above.Dykes also had a finger in defence



"Hugh John Maxwell Dykes, Baron Dykes, born 17 May 1939 to Richard and Doreen Dykes is a British politician. He is a Foreign Affairs Spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats in the House of Lords .

Dykes served as a Conservative Member of Parliament for Harrow East from 1970 until he lost his seat at the General Election of 1997. He also served as a Member of the European Parliament between 1974 and 1977. While an MP, Dykes served in the Ministry of Defence and the Cabinet Office in Edward Heath’s Government.

Following the loss of his seat in the 1997 General Election Dykes applied for selection as the Conservative candidate for the Uxbridge by-election of July 1997, but was not shortlisted. Following the defeat of Kenneth Clarke in the Conservative Leadership battle following the 1997 General Election Dykes joined the Liberal Democrats. Within a year of joining the party he came to serve as an adviser to Paddy Ashdown on European Union affairs.

Outside of his roles as Foreign Affairs Spokesperson, he has served as the Vice President of the British-German Association.

Due to his close relations with Europe Dykes has been honoured several times. In 1991 he was awarded the German Order of Merit followed by the Luxembourg Medaille pour l'Europe in 1993.

In 2004 Dykes was raised to the Peerage as Baron Dykes, of Harrow Weald in the London Borough of Harrow. The same year he received the French Légion d'Honneur."


Cheap at half the price!


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 Post subject: Re: Crash and burn …
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:41 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:19 pm
Posts: 398
I am not sure anyone here is surprised with the latest reports about the difficulties of this a/c. This was all about euro egos and jobs and that the various MoD’s got the bill worked out even better because it could be classified as defense spending. The same can be said about the current stat nav system being developed by the euros. It too is another failed system, which has little value except to the Chinese, and once again MoD gets the bill.

Should the USAF get a new tanker the contract will be awarded to Boeing. DOD will set up criteria that will require EADS to build a new airframe or take a hit on capability. It will be fair and open just as the process was for the contract that resulted in the M400 as opposed to either the C17 or the C130.

Equally given there is a new POTUS and a leftist controlled Congress, they will be none too keen to see a USAF plane being mostly built in Europe. It will be a public relations nightmare and one, which they will not want to fight.


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