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 Post subject: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:33 pm 
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... whom I loathe more, the G20 circus or the moronic and potentially violent protesters who are out there demonstrating "for jobs, justice and climate" (I kid you not), having arrived in London from all over the country and overseas. Undoubtedly, their preferred methods of transport were the environmentally acceptable bicycle, horse'n'buggy and rowing boat.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:09 pm 
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'Liberal Fascism' is next on my reading list and glad to know that I will not be wasting my time ploughing through it. Just finishing 'The English Civil Wars' by Blair Worden which is a catalogue of turbulent times, the complexity of which I never dreamed. Interestingly the Army or Armies played a significant role.

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 Post subject: Re: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:41 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:33 pm
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Liberal Fascism documents a lot of unpalatable truths. Mussolini was quite popular here in the twenties and thities."You're the tops,you're Mussolini..." Cole Porter.

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 Post subject: Re: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:32 pm 
Dr. Helen said "I cannot recommend the book highly enough to those who really want to learn."

Seconded.


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 Post subject: Re: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
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All human experience tells us that systems fail eventually. Therefore, logically, any world-wide system of law/finance/currency will result in world-wide failure.
Why, like moths to a flame, do they think this time will be different??

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 Post subject: Re: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:35 pm 
An excellent post. The Browns and Obamas of this world will be slapping each other's backs and congratulating themselves on saving the world as we know it etc. On the streets, oh it is all so wevolutoinary, the swampys and Jackals (more like Jocastas and Tarquins) will be slapping each other's backs and congratulating themselves on saving the planet man. A bigger and more disagreeable bunch of aresholes, both in the 5 star hotels and 'on da' street', could not be congregated anywhere at anytime.


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 Post subject: Re: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:44 pm 
"All human experience tells us that systems fail eventually. Therefore, logically, any world-wide system of law/finance/currency will result in world-wide failure.
Why, like moths to a flame, do they think this time will be different??"

It is a design fault in the human race,we have to believe in something.


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 Post subject: Re: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:27 pm
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Location: Oxford, UK
Interestingly, the BBC news (I just heard it from the other room, I don't watch on purpose) is saying that the protests 'show the depth of the public's anger'. Maybe because they take a similar guardian-pinko view of the world, but surely this is not the public in any sense. When the BBC had what to me was a more authentic exposition of the depth of public anger, directed at Gordon Brown by Hannan, they did not think it worth mentioning. When they did mention it, only the internet phenomenon was the story. The BBC doesn't want to know what the public thinks, unless it can tell them first.
Got caught out at Question Time though, I hear.

Richard, you're kind of inside the bubble, sometimes. Do they (the bubbleers) really not know what people are saying outside? Are they in denial? Do they not hear it, or do they discard it as transient, or are they carrying on in ignorance of life outside, like Pickles and his pathetic attempt to commute (tried it, wasn't for me)? What will they say when the BNP get 20% of the vote in June? Can you explain what is going on in a post? Suggested title 'The Masque of the Red Death'.


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 Post subject: Re: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:35 pm 
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Its a sort of cognitive dissonance. They can see they problem in abstract, but each individual does not believe it applies to them. There must be more to it that that, though. I suppose it could also be the "noise level".

The Westminster bubble is so full of its own importance that the individuals filter material in a way different to normal humans. That which interests them most - themselves - they accord great priority and endless discussion. The news from outside, therefore, gets drowned in the mental cocophany and barely registers.

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 Post subject: Re: "The situation is increasingly perilous"
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Quote:
We have a bloody good defense force, but that is about it.


Hmmm...in the near future maybe more useful at home protecting offgepissed Brits from themselves. Still any mothballed Snatches around, Richard? They may yet be useful.

So, the real question is how to relieve ourselves of our responsibilities with some dignity left, leaving the work to be done by those capable of investing troops & resources. We are bankrupt.
I hope Richard is collecting stuff for his book sequel...same lovely cover will do nicely; only the dates & country need changing.

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 Post subject: Re: "The situation is increasingly perilous"
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:41 pm 
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DEFENDER wrote:
In discussing this matter I believe it would be useful to be mindful of the current state of finances. Every penny that we spend on hearts and minds anywhere in the world has to be paid for with borrowed money. Building infrastructure and providing security requires money, lots of it and Afghan has none.
We are at a point where we cannot finance ourselves, how can we afford Afghanistan. The power of the UK is not at all what it was even 15 years ago, we think we are a big player at the table but we really cant afford to be in the game. We have lost our ante, we have lost our credit, its time to admit the reality, we cannot afford to play the game anymore.
We have a bloddy good defense force, but that is about it.


The bizarre thing is that Afghanistan is potentially very wealthy. It has considerable coal reserves and huge copper deposits. Developing the infrastructure could pay for itself over time.

But you are right ... everything we do there - including financing the military, is on borrowed money. We can't afford to stay - but can we afford to go?


Discuss! PDT_Armataz_01_05

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 Post subject: Re: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:49 pm 
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I wonder if there's a UK branch of Zombie Time? PDT_Armataz_01_14

Perhaps there should be...

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 Post subject: Re: "The situation is increasingly perilous"
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:02 pm 

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 6:12 pm
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the real question is how to relieve ourselves of our responsibilities with some dignity left, leaving the work to be done by those capable of investing troops & resources. We are bankrupt.

Absolutely correct, sir. In the very near future we may have to manage without the dignity bit.
Those capable of investing troops and resources will not touch this with a barge pole. Only the western governments would go with a hearts and minds strategy and this is the problem. Can you imagine the Chinese tippy toeing in our fashion and besides them who else is there?
A scenereo,
Some bad taliban are spotted by a J Star( £200million) going into a hut, they call up a Preditor (another few £hundred bucks) to fire off a missle,( a few more million) to demolish the hut, a Chinook( 40 K per hour) is sent in with troops to confirm the results, 4 taliban 6 women, a few children, a couple of goats and a pissed of vilage. So we used multi million £ assets to achieve what exactly.

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 Post subject: Re: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1862
SandyRham wrote:
All human experience tells us that systems fail eventually. Therefore, logically, any world-wide system of law/finance/currency will result in world-wide failure.
Why, like moths to a flame, do they think this time will be different??

They are on the inside looking out. They believe they have a solution but their view of the world is skewed by their position. The only things that last are those that evolve. Absorbing what is good and adopting what works. It is a grassroots thing. The best thing politicians could do now is to just get out of the way.

The world wide financial regulation is already here and has been for some time. The Group of Twenty Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors (to give it it's full title*) have pushed things along in one direction for a decade and before that there were other groups with other plans. It's safety in numbers I expect. Perhaps naively believing that if we are all economically on the same track the urge to compete and better our neighbours would be abated. The pecking order would be maintained but not exaggerated.(Which is probably why free trade to bring prosperity to Africa is never on the agenda, only conscience soothing charity is. For Africa to gain others must lose and the West has the most to lose.)

Unfortunately human nature is a powerful thing. Canada isn't having a banking crisis, they've been conservative with their banking supervision. The US is having a big banking crisis because it was less conservative though it did clamp down on some dodgy banking practices. The UK is having a massive banking crisis because those in power wanted London to be a shining beacon of the finance world, to best the US and European financial districts. So long as the results looked good questions weren't asked.

Only through different economies taking different paths can we discern what works and what doesn't. They don't even need to share a destination but the people in charge cooked up their grand plan and it either hasn't worked or they deceived themselves that it had.

* So why are the Presidents and Prime Ministers meeting as well?

Peter wrote:
It is a design fault in the human race,we have to believe in something.

If more of us believed in ourselves maybe we wouldn't be in this mess.


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 Post subject: Re: I was deliberating ....
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:21 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:41 pm
Posts: 103
The good thing about them having "climate" all over their banners is that it should tip off the general public as to what the protests are really about.


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