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 Post subject: Keeping the Queen's peace / Summer / Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:20 am 
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Keeping the Queen's peace

According to a YouGov, with details via the Press Association, more than a third of voters believe the Army will have to be brought in to deal with a "summer of rage" on British streets as the recession bites. The poll has been commissioned by the Prospect magazine, which has found that 37 percent thought such "serious social unrest in several British cities" was certain or likely. A slim majority (51 percent) disagreed.

View full article here

A summer of anger?

Pointing to more trouble to come, The Daily Telegraph notes: "Thousands of foreign workers exploiting British jobs market". The issue is "intra-company transfers", though which means international companies to transfer their staff to the UK for supposedly limited periods of time. However, the number of workers taking advantage of this system has increased by almost half in four years. Some 48,010 applications for intra-company transfers were approved in 2008, up 47 per cent on the 32,770 given the go ahead in 2004 and the equivalent of 131 arriving every day.

View full article here

Bring out your unrest

Much to everyone's surprise, including the organisers, 120,000 people or so marched through Dublin yesterday in an "emotional and angry national demonstration over the Irish Government's handling of the economic crisis." According to one report, the sheer size of the turnout meant it had to set off earlier than was planned, with the parade stretching the entire length of its mile route at one stage.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:01 am 
"It has been taking pot-shots at a local TV station, its second attack in less than a month. The group says that is had specifically targeted journalists because they represented a corrupt establishment and warned them that worse attacks would follow. "By attacking the channel, we are sending an ultimatum to all journalists," it says."

Terrorism.


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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:29 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:19 pm
Posts: 398
I might want to join this unrest if you can assure me that we really will get to shoot at jurnos and if the ones reporting for the US M$M can be identified. It does however seem that corrupt journalist is just as redundant as democrat is to socialist. In the US all democrats are socialist and all socialists are democrats.


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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:41 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:06 pm
Posts: 356
When the elite establishment in Europe has all but rejected democracy, why would it expect the people to act otherwise?

Someone at the National Review describes Obama as the first of a new sort of "charismatic" leader. If true, that's somewhat worrisome. The American system of government is not meant to allow for the creation of strong men (as opposed to strong executives, of which there have been many). I rather suspect that we will witness the rise of mini-Obamas in Europe. As to whether they will be democrats or something else, I cannot say at present.


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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:54 am 
Guest wrote:
"It has been taking pot-shots at a local TV station, its second attack in less than a month. The group says that is had specifically targeted journalists because they represented a corrupt establishment and warned them that worse attacks would follow. "By attacking the channel, we are sending an ultimatum to all journalists," it says."

Terrorism.


It's all about point of view.

- Not that I condone murder.


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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:48 am 
Not that the Irish government can do a damn thing about it anyway. As a member of the Euro the economic troubles over the Irish Sea were entirely predictable with economic policy for (just about) the whole of the EU being set for economies that differed wildly. Until the populations of countries experiencing unrest open their eyes (and the politicians/MSM stop lying about it) and see how it is "The Project" that is a major factor in their problems history will continue to repeat itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:10 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:30 am
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Location: Traveling again.
Dominic Allkins wrote:
Not that the Irish government can do a damn thing about it anyway. As a member of the Euro the economic troubles over the Irish Sea were entirely predictable with economic policy for (just about) the whole of the EU being set for economies that differed wildly. Until the populations of countries experiencing unrest open their eyes (and the politicians/MSM stop lying about it) and see how it is "The Project" that is a major factor in their problems history will continue to repeat itself.


I can go along with that,
the problem is, that voters vote for a mental retard and expect 'Harry Potter'

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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:16 pm 
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The Irish appear to be demonstrating for higher taxes on those who make money for the country and the continuance of endless public sector jobs. The same seems to be the purpose of the planned anti-globalization/anarchist demos here in April (I mean students against bankers?). Personally, I'd prefer the American style demos - against higher taxes and against a greater growth in the state sector. Remember, we are paying for those public sector jobs and all those students who are getting ridiculous degrees from ridiculous universities. But hey, if you don't mind your taxes going up and up ....


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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:30 am
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Location: Traveling again.
Hey Helen,
must you be reminded that we are all equal? Of course there's them and us, and in political circles it depends who us is.
I like 'political circles' it could be mistaken with circus, it gives the impression of round and round and round

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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:30 pm
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Helen S wrote:
The Irish appear to be demonstrating for higher taxes on those who make money for the country and the continuance of endless public sector jobs. The same seems to be the purpose of the planned anti-globalization/anarchist demos here in April (I mean students against bankers?). Personally, I'd prefer the American style demos - against higher taxes and against a greater growth in the state sector. Remember, we are paying for those public sector jobs and all those students who are getting ridiculous degrees from ridiculous universities. But hey, if you don't mind your taxes going up and up ....



I just happened to be in Dublin yesterday (not for the demonstration) and, on the city centre route, one couldn't miss it - i timed it at 1 hr 20mins to pass by.

The demonstration (officially) was called against the Irish Government's recent pension levy on public servants
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0203/economy.html.
However, the general protest was also against the recent scandals in Irish banks also - the Anglo Irish Bank in particular and their Golden Circle
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5781014.ece.

Apart several general placard statements, stand-outs included:
"Tax" (with a 'tick') and "levy" (scored out) - Hmmm, not sure about that one - as Helen says, safeguarding Socialist (worker) positions of 'power' ????
One (only) demonstrator with ( i don't remember the whole placard statement) "HSE = anti-Irish, HSE = British imperial......" - oh dear, another demonstrator trying to support anti-British rhetoric. If nothing, there's certainly (old) transparency when the Irish demonstrate.....maybe he got directed onto the wrong demonstration ?
A few Sinn Fein protestors/placards - don't they get the message that Southern Ireland voters don't want them....or Fianna Fail either (their pols will have to get as much from the public purse before they're out of a job soon !)
A protestor (with hoody up) arguing for Lithuanian justice and that 'A N Other' (name not noted) was innocent - was slightly amusing to watch him walk against the 'tide' and full marks for his effort.....whether it got him anywhere though.
And....thankfully, a placard with "Give Ireland back to the Irish, reject the Lisbon Treaty'.....sadly just the one of these placards as well, but welcome nonetheless.

Whether you agree with Helen on the public sector issue, or not, she is being too harsh on the general despondency/frustration/anger/worry/fear of the populace. The bankers/entrepreneurs/businessmen who, alledgedly, create the country's wealth have also forced their (percieved) losses on the people. Taking side for the business community is akin to acting like the many 'Socialist Workers' who were out in force to gather (new) supporters for their equal 'power trip'.
http://ballymunsocialist.wordpress.com/2009/02/22/120000-march-in-dublin-now-for-a-one-day-national-stoppage/

So, on the one hand we have the 'so called' money creators (Greedy and uncaring to the core; unless, of course there is some tax advantages to showing their caring side) and, on the other hand, the leeches of Socialism.
These terrible twins have plagued our societies for too long and the recent economic stirrings show us where both of them want 'us' - in a dark, brooding hole with little escape.


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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1862
sonomaca wrote:
When the elite establishment in Europe has all but rejected democracy, why would it expect the people to act otherwise?

Someone at the National Review describes Obama as the first of a new sort of "charismatic" leader. If true, that's somewhat worrisome. The American system of government is not meant to allow for the creation of strong men (as opposed to strong executives, of which there have been many). I rather suspect that we will witness the rise of mini-Obamas in Europe. As to whether they will be democrats or something else, I cannot say at present.

Thanks to the rise of the political class, we have had something of a National Government in the UK for years. Different shades of statists that is all. The answer to everything is More Government. The same is largely true for the EU. An alternative point of view is a threat to them and demonised accordingly.

The UK has already suffered it's charismatic leader in the shape of Tony Blair but he was just a greater iteration of Bill Clinton. Empty, shallow, appearance is more important than substance. The rare good that they do drowns in a sea of cynical PR-driven opportunism. The slick patter and thick skind they developed in the legal profession served them well.

Now we have swung from charisma to comic there is an opportunity for someone charismatic to jump in and 'save' us. This could go either way though - save us through marching further towards socialism and a command economy, or save us through stepping back, trimming the ample fat, reducing the reach of the State. We're so used to the State stepping in, dictating what is right, trying to prevent failure (as opposed to just picking up the pieces when we do fail) that I expect it to be the former not the latter.

Helen S wrote:
The Irish appear to be demonstrating for higher taxes on those who make money for the country and the continuance of endless public sector jobs. The same seems to be the purpose of the planned anti-globalization/anarchist demos here in April (I mean students against bankers?). Personally, I'd prefer the American style demos - against higher taxes and against a greater growth in the state sector. Remember, we are paying for those public sector jobs and all those students who are getting ridiculous degrees from ridiculous universities. But hey, if you don't mind your taxes going up and up ....

A highly unionised public sector workforce has whipped up a substantial protest. But who speaks for the taxpayer? It would behove the politicians in Ireland to begin shouting their support for those that pay their wages in direct contrast to the union message, but it is likely beyond many of them - low taxes and small, limited Government simply does not compute. They are mostly singing from the same hymn sheet.

chig wrote:
So, on the one hand we have the 'so called' money creators (Greedy and uncaring to the core; unless, of course there is some tax advantages to showing their caring side) and, on the other hand, the leeches of Socialism.
These terrible twins have plagued our societies for too long and the recent economic stirrings show us where both of them want 'us' - in a dark, brooding hole with little escape.

The banksters have foisted their incompetence onto the taxpayer because the polticians have allowed them to. They admirably play the political game and preach that they are too big to fail. The socialists exploit this to look powerful and are exploited themselves by the banksters. They both win. The loser is always the taxpayer. Whatever happened to risk?


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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:38 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:06 pm
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Many commentators have said that were Ireland not one of the pet Euro basket cases it would have suffered the fate of Poland, Latvia, Hungary, and the rest. Everyone (including public sector unions) will have to realize that the heady days are over and that standards of living won't be the same for a long, long time, if ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:48 pm 
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gareth wrote:
The banksters have foisted their incompetence onto the taxpayer because the polticians have allowed them to.


And the greedy middle income citizens around the world lent the money for their houses and bought the assets without which nothing of the recent events could have happened. Always blaming 'those at the top': Great or the greatest idea?

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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:00 pm 
The vast majority of the marchers are from the public sector. They are protesting because the Government is making them pay something towards their lavish pensions, whose cost is reckoned to be worth in excess of 25% of current salaries. Many public sector workers currently contribute nothing towards their pensions, whilst others contribute 5%, but in recognition of this they got a 5% pay rise.

Some public sector workers can retire as early as 55, and the typical pension is 50% of final salary, which increases in line with the salary of the worker replacing them. They also get a lump sum of 11/2 times final salary on retirement. This frequently means a public sector worker retired 10 years now has a pension in excess of their final salary due to the massive increases in public sector wages over the last 10 years.

Irish public sector retirement benefits are reckoned to be the best in the entire world, and their salaries to be the best in Europe. You won't be surprised to learn that Government salaries are linked to senior civil servants, so for instance the Taoiseach (Prime Minister) earns more than the President of the USA, whilst being in charge of an economy equivalent to a large city. Given that unemployment will probable exceed 500,000 by year end (equivalent to at least 7 million in the UK)there is going to be serious social unrest, but it may be in a form that the public sector won't like.


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 Post subject: Re: Bring out your unrest
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:07 pm 
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Edmund Burke wrote:
The vast majority of the marchers are from the public sector. They are protesting because the Government is making them pay something towards their lavish pensions, whose cost is reckoned to be worth in excess of 25% of current salaries. Many public sector workers currently contribute nothing towards their pensions, whilst others contribute 5%, but in recognition of this they got a 5% pay rise.

Some public sector workers can retire as early as 55, and the typical pension is 50% of final salary, which increases in line with the salary of the worker replacing them. They also get a lump sum of 11/2 times final salary on retirement. This frequently means a public sector worker retired 10 years now has a pension in excess of their final salary due to the massive increases in public sector wages over the last 10 years.

Irish public sector retirement benefits are reckoned to be the best in the entire world, and their salaries to be the best in Europe. You won't be surprised to learn that Government salaries are linked to senior civil servants, so for instance the Taoiseach (Prime Minister) earns more than the President of the USA, whilst being in charge of an economy equivalent to a large city. Given that unemployment will probable exceed 500,000 by year end (equivalent to at least 7 million in the UK)there is going to be serious social unrest, but it may be in a form that the public sector won't like.


Well, it is so very nice to see them upset.

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