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 Post subject: Booker – part 2
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:27 pm 
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The column is finally up, with part 2 here - more than twelve hours late, and only after a telephoned reminder. You do really wonder what the website managers think they are doing. Anyhow, you can read it off the link, and enjoy the photograph.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Booker – part 2
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:49 pm 
"the New Scientist is telling us that the "Arctic melt [is] 20 years ahead of climate models",

So the computer models are wrong ,once again? How the hell can there be a sane energy policy if nobody knows what is happening?


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 Post subject: Re: Booker – part 2
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:53 pm 
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Peter wrote:
"the New Scientist is telling us that the "Arctic melt [is] 20 years ahead of climate models",

So the computer models are wrong ,once again? How the hell can there be a sane energy policy if nobody knows what is happening?


There is plenty of information out there for anyone who wants or needs to know. The bigger problem, it seems, is that governments don't want to know, and neither do their electorates. Front page on The Sunday Times and the Sunday Telegraph today? Strictly Come Dancing!

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 Post subject: Promoters overstated the environmental benefit of wind farms
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:49 am
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy ... farms.html

... The wind farm industry has been forced to admit that the environmental benefit of wind power in reducing carbon emissions is only half as big as it had previously claimed. ... The British Wind Energy Association (BWEA) has agreed to scale down its calculation for the amount of harmful carbon dioxide emission that can be eliminated by using wind turbines to generate electricity instead of burning fossil fuels such as coal or gas.

The move is a serious setback for the advocates of wind power, as it will be regarded as a concession that twice as many wind turbines as previously calculated will be needed to provide the same degree of reduction in Britain's carbon emissions.

A wind farm industry source admitted: "It's not ideal for us. It's the result of pressure by the anti-wind farm lobby." ...

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 Post subject: Re: Booker – part 2
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:03 pm 
"Front page on The Sunday Times and the Sunday Telegraph today? Strictly Come Dancing!"

Well,we have to keep warm somehow.


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 Post subject: Re: Booker – part 2
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:09 am 
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It struck me reading about Siberian temperatures, it can be too cold for snow?


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 Post subject: Re: Booker – part 2
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:16 am 

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Quote:
it can be too cold for snow?


Yup too cold or too dry.

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 Post subject: Re: Booker – part 2
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:51 am 
I cancelled my subscription to New Scientist a few months ago. I couldn't stand their relentless pushing of AGW propaganda any more. Nor the scorn which was poured, like thick gloopy custard, over anyone who dared question the "consensus".

I am amused, in a grim sort of way, by the BBC's reporting of climate matters. They trumpet things like melting ice in the Arctic (although not the thickening ice in the Antarctic) and at the same time report the worst winter for 37 years across Canada - a large part of which is within the Arctic circle. They bewail ski resorts going bust all over Europe because of lack of snow, but also report on the great year ski resorts are having all over Europe because of high early snowfalls. They seem so happy to have their cake and eat it. One wonders whether people are actually taught logic and critical thinking any more. And one suspects not.

I did go and look at the New Scientist article and was somewhat intrigued by this paragraph:

"[Cecelia Bitz's] latest simulations, also presented at the AGU meeting, offer a message of tentative hope for recovery. At constant greenhouse gas emissions fixed to projected 2020 levels, sea ice retreats slowly, not precipitously. And when greenhouse gases are removed entirely from the model, sea ice regrows, even in future scenarios in which global warming has stripped the Arctic of ice year-round."

Particularly the phrase: "when greenhouse gases are removed entirely from the model". Water is the most prevalent of the greenhouse gases, but if you remove all the water, it presents some difficulty in having an Arctic Ocean, let alone the ice on it. But I think I'm taking sloppy reporting too literally ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Booker – part 2
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
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Quote:
But I think I'm taking sloppy reporting too literally

I am willing to believe they have accurately reported sloppy thinking from the charlatans themselves.
If you check here you'll find that the accuracy of warming data is the current front-line. The Hansens of this world are quite happy to make data to fit the theory, luckily the internet lets us howl bollox :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Booker – part 2
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:03 pm
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What does anyone think about this - http://www.ilovemycarbondioxide.com/pdf ... pycock.pdf
If there is no such thing as the greenhouse effect where do the Greenies go from here?


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 Post subject: Re: Booker – part 2
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
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Good link.
They'll remain locked in the loop of "We ARE right, SO you're wrong" which they call logic.

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 Post subject: Re: Booker – part 2
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:05 pm 
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SandyRham wrote:
Good link.
They'll remain locked in the loop of "We ARE right, SO you're wrong" which they call logic.


That is how it works. They come from the standpoint that they are absolutely right - even when they are wrong, which of course they never are. Therefore, if you disagree, you must - by definition - be wrong. And if you are wrong, then there is no need to listen to your arguments because, even when you are right, you are actually wrong. "Wrongness" is thus defined not in absolute terms, but by comparison with that which is held to be right. QED.

This is why you can never win an argument with a believer, in the same way that you can never win an argument about the existence of God with a Jesuit. The only way out is to shoot them (or expell them).

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