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 Post subject: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:22 pm 
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Some things you don't expect. There's me, mild-mannered and inoffensive – sweet reason itself - and all I wanted was my newspaper.

Plopping it on the counter and digging deep to find the pennies to pay for it, the newsagent – a lovely, cheerful Indian - seized it, brandishing it the air. "Country going to rack and ruin," he stormed, "and they put this on the front page!"

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:40 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:52 am
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I agree with him, the state the Country is in and that is what the "Telegraph" does! How are the mighty fallen, they should never have taken the adverts off the front page, it's never been the same since. The printing ink and the paper are lousy too.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:59 pm 
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When did the Telegraph last have ads on the front page. That was the Morning Post and it has not been around for a decade or ten. You are thinking about the Times.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:13 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:49 pm
Posts: 86
In a way the Brand/Ross affair can be seen as the public reacting to infantalisation. The BBC, particularly in its "yoof" broadcasting has been in the forefront of dumbing down the culture and whilst the ratchet clicked slowly, people were reluctant to make a fuss but since this event marked a bigger descent they have had record complaints. The BBC was caught off guard.

The importance of this story is not in the events itself but in the way it reveals the total disconnect between the ruling elite, of which the BBC is an important part, and the populace at large.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:23 pm 
Civilisation. Yes, I think I remember it.

2050 would be about the time that any grandchildren my offspring could produce would be in their prime or nearing it.

The Green chide is to 'think of your grandchildren' and the risk that is claimed may (or may not) result from recent past and near term future human activity. There is a risk, small in statistical terms, but a risk that we may be trashing things as we develop the very foundations from which those future children will spring.

Of course the children may never come into being, nor the problems as presented.

In the meantime we allow things to be set up to ensure that, no matter what, they will most likely have a most miserable time of it on all fronts. If I were of the age at which I might be about to start a family am fairly sure it would not happen. Sadly that would leave Malthus and followers winning anyway but I would not want my kids blaming me for their adult life style and pointing to what previous generations had thrown away.

But then it seems that all 'civilisations' do that at some point, the divestment being much more rapid than the previous acquisition of their strengths.


Grant


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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:00 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Devon
Helen S wrote:
When did the Telegraph last have ads on the front page. That was the Morning Post and it has not been around for a decade or ten. You are thinking about the Times.


Perhaps it is time to relaunch The Morning Post, I cannot remember it but I am sure that it must have been a better paper than the comic called The Telegraph that passes for a serious broadsheet today.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:00 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Devon
Re Climate Change Bill

"Mr. Lilley: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Given that we are passing the Climate Change Bill, which is based on the supposition that the climate is getting warmer, let me point out that it is now snowing outside, in October". (Hansard)

Then the Bill was passed by 463 votes to 3, that leaves 187 who were not bothered, doing something else, putting in their expense claims, whatever. My MP did not vote and I will be contacting him to ask why, mind you he is a Tory so perhaps he was investigating the Ross Brand affair!


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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:09 pm 
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Rural Idiot wrote:
Re Climate Change Bill

"Mr. Lilley: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Given that we are passing the Climate Change Bill, which is based on the supposition that the climate is getting warmer, let me point out that it is now snowing outside, in October". (Hansard)


How did he know? The chamber has no windows! Somebody must have sent a message to his Blackberry.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:14 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:30 am
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Location: Traveling again.
As about 99.9% of the population think that Plato was a rock star how can you ask them to form a logical opinion?
Plato 424-347 BC ( thats Before Christ )

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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:33 pm 
Absolutely no evidence to support this view -I've just got one of those very strong feelings in my waters about the explosive growth in the number of complaints in this case.

I think most people, like me, view the events with a mixture of weary resignation and what else do you expect. I've never watched either Wossy or the Hairy One (correction - I've accidently tuned in enough to confirm my view that I don't want to watch them) From the little I've seen and read about these two characters I have come to the conclusion that I could get sufficent and as much of that kind of humour and behaviour as I desire from the crowds of Yoofs that hang round the local parade of shops each night. No need to pay a TV tax and at least they have excuse that they are about 12 to 14 years old to justify the quality of their material.

No, I think that the growth in complaints is because a sector of the long suffering public has realised that they have just been given a stick with which they can beat the Beeb. The fact that it's a stcik of their own making and there's a good excuse for the beating, makes the whole process that much sweeter.

It's really a measure of that disconnect, and resentmen, to which an earlier poster poster has referred.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:46 pm 
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Rural Idiot wrote:
Helen S wrote:
When did the Telegraph last have ads on the front page. That was the Morning Post and it has not been around for a decade or ten. You are thinking about the Times.


Perhaps it is time to relaunch The Morning Post, I cannot remember it but I am sure that it must have been a better paper than the comic called The Telegraph that passes for a serious broadsheet today.


Not terribly good, actually. I read quite a lot of it for my BA dissertation. Newspapers were always poor, the world was always going to the dogs and civilization was always in some mythical past. Oh and the middle classes were always rising. Still are, by the way.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:01 pm 
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I would suggest there is a difference now - where the Brown "bank bailout" not only has not been debated in Parliament but there has been no formal call for such a debate, yet Mrs Teresa May, at the first opportunity, calls for a debate on the Ross Brand affair.

Nor indeed do I entirely agree with you about the relative merits of past and present press coverage. Researching for "Scared to Death", I had to go back into the archives to study the coverage of the 1964 Aberdeen Typhoid Outbreak, then comparing the coverage with the very detailed official report of the incident. This I then compared with media coverage of the 1988 "salmonella in eggs" affair, and the reporting on BSE.

In general, the 1964 coverage was informative, The Times at least avoiding sensationalism, discussing intelligently quite advanced epidemiological concepts, and narrating them in a measured manner, with scientific consistency. Much of the contemporary reporting was entirely in accord with the later accounts in the official report.

By 1988, the coverage was lurid, ill-informed and alarmist, lacking in any serious scientific depth and getting simple concepts wholly wrong. It was to get even worse with BSE.

While one cannot generalise, it seems to me that there is a case to answer - that the media, certainly on some issues - is immeasurably poorer than it used to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
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You've got to take Cambell's spin into account, the Mail is a big McBust supporter, God knows why, but they are. It's very likely that it was put up to the Ross/Brand scandal, to get the appalling Baroness Mandy of Mince and the Bank Bailout off the front pages and as usual it has worked.

Why the Not the Tory party and it's supposed MSM supporters keep falling for it, is truly weird.

If that is the level of debate over Climate Non Change, then there really is no hope for the UK....the FTSE will eventually fall apart, along with the economy. We are being led by simpletons and the opposition is just as bad. and to add further insult to the misery, they are paying a fortune to the EU, with our money, so it can impose this lunacy and wreck our futures. David Icke has a better grip on reality, than our leaders.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:13 pm 
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FU (Fed Up) wrote:
David Icke has a better grip on reality, than our leaders.


He certainly could be right about the shape-shifting lizards. I can't think of a better explanation for the behaviour of our rulers.

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We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the last grown up …
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:05 pm 
I didn't see any links to this, but thought I'd share:

MIT scientists baffled by global warming theory, contradicts scientific data

Boston (MA) - Scientists at MIT have recorded a nearly simultaneous world-wide increase in methane levels. This is the first increase in ten years, and what baffles science is that this data contradicts theories stating man is the primary source of increase for this greenhouse gas...

http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content ... -text.html


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