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 Post subject: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:25 am 
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Ever since I saw it in The Sunday Times, I knew I would have to write about it. I have been putting it off, but the moment has come.

The subject, of course, is the bizarre statement by our new secretary of state for defence John Hutton who, according to the paper, has "become the first defence secretary to back a French plan for a European army, branding those who dismiss it as 'pathetic'".

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:54 am 
Easy now, 'pathetic' can also mean those "affecting or moving the feelings."

By that, he might mean 'nationalistic' or whatever.


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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:27 am 
I think you might be being a touch too glumy. We're still getting F35, and the carriers - yes I know they're a subsidy to marginal constituancies but all the same, eurofighter is plowing on, Astute is still there, as is type 45, Storm Shadow etc.

I would very much like to see a real change (a real increase in spending no less) but things are still moving on. We do still have the second highest defense budget in the world!

Besides, if the Chinese start eyeing Taiwan speculatively or the Russians do move back into Tartus (i.e. Syria) some people might wake up, not to mention those ever entertaining Iranians!

There are lots of decisions from MoD I don't understand (like leaving 50,000 Milans in storage and spending a lot on Javelin, I still recon we should let the Taleban have them pointy end first), but it ain't dead yet.

Keep up the good work, but do bare in mind, in the last few years we have been heading to an almost entirely mine resistant fleet of vehicles - when did we ever attempt this in the past?

Jackal looks pretty good too, Apache's going well, the contracts for new Lynx are actually signed aren't they?

You know what SNAFU stands for right?


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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:35 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:00 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Devon
I will wear my poppy with pride today and every day until the 12th November. Come to think of it perhaps we should carry on wearing them until this mad scheme is abolished.
PDT_Armataz_01_41


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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:57 am 
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adw wrote:
I think you might be being a touch too glumy. We're still getting F35, and the carriers - yes I know they're a subsidy to marginal constituancies but all the same, eurofighter is plowing on, Astute is still there, as is type 45, Storm Shadow etc.

I would very much like to see a real change (a real increase in spending no less) but things are still moving on. We do still have the second highest defense budget in the world!

Besides, if the Chinese start eyeing Taiwan speculatively or the Russians do move back into Tartus (i.e. Syria) some people might wake up, not to mention those ever entertaining Iranians!

There are lots of decisions from MoD I don't understand (like leaving 50,000 Milans in storage and spending a lot on Javelin, I still recon we should let the Taleban have them pointy end first), but it ain't dead yet.

Keep up the good work, but do bare in mind, in the last few years we have been heading to an almost entirely mine resistant fleet of vehicles - when did we ever attempt this in the past?

Jackal looks pretty good too, Apache's going well, the contracts for new Lynx are actually signed aren't they?

You know what SNAFU stands for right?


I wouldn't put money on us getting the F-35, unless the suddenly decide to give that designation to the Rafale ... and it will be interesting to see which flag our carriers fly. DO NOT FORGET that the carriers are already pencilled in as an integral part of the ERRF.

The Type 45 is an over-expensive under-equipped joke, with untried French missiles ... which have largely been responsible for the cost over-runs, Storm Shadow is the £1 million bomb that is too expensive to use and will never be replaced, the Apache is vastly over-priced for what it is and significantly under-performs in theatre and the Lynx is an over-priced pile of junk that we'll get sometime never, in such limited quantities that most of the pilots will have to drive to work in sand buggies, the Jackal is a truck with a bit of armour bolted on ... better than a Land Rover with a bit of armour bolted on ... but not much. The Milans are time expired. They are (in theory) dangerous to use unless they are rebuilt with new propellant and warheads, which is now manufactured by the French, us having sold military explosives manufacturing capabilities to them.

Apart from that, things are very jolly. It will be interesting to see what the Eurofighters look like with rings of stars on ...

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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:19 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:30 am
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Location: Traveling again.
What ! another politician with a turd for a brain, even I know that to teach the British Military to use French equipment is an impossibility. Ask a 5 year old, they know that all French vehicles have 20 reverse gears and never work..

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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:34 am 
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nottoobrite wrote:
What ! another politician with a turd for a brain, even I know that to teach the British Military to use French equipment is an impossibility. Ask a 5 year old, they know that all French vehicles have 20 reverse gears and never work..


What really confuses our Brown Jobs is that the French vehicles are designed to look like they're going forwards, when they're actually going backwards. Cunning, these damn Frogs!

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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
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So drive them in reverse, it's always safer to be seated backwards in a crash !!

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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:25 pm 
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Rural Idiot wrote:
I will wear my poppy with pride today and every day until the 12th November. Come to think of it perhaps we should carry on wearing them until this mad scheme is abolished.
PDT_Armataz_01_41


Me too.

I know it's a bit off topic but on the news the other night they had French Gendarmes patrolling with Met. Officers in London, classic too walking four abreast instead of in pairs. In pairs that used to be a disciplinary offence, idling and gossiping!


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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:25 pm 
I've said this before and been upbraided as an extremist: Now is the time to plan seriously for control of the British military forces. The preferred method is the existing one, in which the Queen has the ultimate sanction. But of course it is precisely the existing arrangements which traitors and foreigners conspire to undo.

1) Seek to use whatever contacts or lines of communication we have to alert the Queen of the danger to her Sovereignty and secure assurances that in the event specified powers over the military are surrendered, or specified measures/command chains put into place, then she will create a Constitutional crisis by declaring the step(s) unconstitutional.

2) At the same, use whatever contacts or lines of communication we have to ensure the military remains decisively loyal to Britain, aware of the threat from the EU and well-rehearsed in the arguments in favour of remaining independent. This shouldn't be difficult given the existing sentiments of most military men, army families etc. But we must not take their support for granted. Ideally we should measure attitudes using opinion polls and focus groups (and other techniques commonly used by blue chips and serious political parties around the world) and orchestrate relentless campaigns targeted at the military and influencers of the military (trainers at Sandhurst, strategic studies lecturers, military journalists, boys in CCF etc.). The campaign would be to emphasise pride in the British forces and to discredit the efficacy of the EU and expose its motives.


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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:14 am
Posts: 312
Location: The Heights of High Wycombe
"Food, shelter and basic security from the looters and thieves will become our main preoccupations." PDT_Armataz_01_19

The concept being that when figuratively, we have our wagons drawn around in a circle to fight off the COMMANCHEROS, we won't care who rescues us,the US cavalry, the Mexican army or even the Apaches. PDT_Armataz_01_37

We'll just be grateful eh?

Nope! We'll have our own heavy weapons and we'll be able to blow the SOBs to pieces, right out of their saddles. PDT_Armataz_01_40

We will not permit paramilitary police from any EU province to defend us, in the absence of our own depleted military/ We'll raise the fyrd again with automatic weapons, instead of pattern welded swords. PDT_Armataz_01_42

If you would have peace. Prepare for war.

Perry

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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:54 pm 
I was a bit hasty with the Submit button and just wanted to add...

In the event we become unhappy with the level of infiltration by the EU of our military (or "share sovereignty" to use the euphemism), we should NOT suppose that democratic means are a likely route back to national independence. Democratic means work when those in control of the police and the army are under de facto command of democratically elected politicians. There's no better example of this than, well, the UK funnily enough.

The Queen is unelected and she has de jure control of the military. This means that according to the law, she is supreme commander of the armed forces and furthermore all services personnel swear allegiance to her. But de facto control is in the hands of the Prime Minister which means that in practice he or she, and not the Queen, gets to declare war. Should the Queen decide to exercise her legal authority in this regard - (say) disallow EU control over certain parts of the British forces - it would create a constitutional crisis whose consequences are very hard to predict. Assuming the Queen had just gone mad the matter may be brushed under the carpet and Charles, or perhaps William, put in place as Regent.

If on the other the Queen was acting quite rationally in protest at some development then the stakes would be very high. She would probably only act contrary to a very unpopular government measure, in which case it is conceivable that widespread popular support backed up by the military could impose a referendum on the issue and a return to Parliamentary democracy with a new precedent set. If she misjudged the matter, either in substance or in the likely support for her intervention, then the Monarchy would be swiftly abolished and placed in the hands of Parliament or more likely the Prime Minister.

We need to be prepared to fight the EU not only through the "soft" power of public opinion and the law. We need to ensure that when push comes to shove our view will prevail on this island. Once there is any doubt about the loyalty of the army the EU will know no bounds. They have already shown incredible audacity in grabbing powers, refuting public opinion and confounding the democratic will wherever it has been expressed (I speak of the referenda obviously).


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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:38 pm 
RAENORTH wrote:
We could, of course, fight the fight – continuing the losing battle. But, soon enough, we will all be fighting a different fight, one for our own personal survivals. Brown, and Major before him, with a lot of help from their tranzie friends, have not only wrecked our economy but the global economy as well. Food, shelter and basic security from the looters and thieves will become our main preoccupations.
And then the inevitable, ugly catharsis. Wonderful.

But never mind all that, here's ........

Today's Lunch Time Quiz!
(Instructions: Changing one letter at a time........)

LONDON
. . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . . .
BEIRUT



Too difficult? Anyway, it's a silly little word game? OK, here's an easier one:

Do it for real over 60 years or so.

Hint: Use your vote in the usual way. Lib, Lab Con — it doesn't matter which.

In fact, this method provides a universal solution. It solves the problem for Leicester, Slough, Bradford, Oldham......... and, eventually, even little old sleepy Lower Wattle-in-the-Daub.

Neat, eh? Why didn't anyone see it coming?

Look on the bright side though. Not all of our recent off-balance-sheet 'enrichments' are on the liability side. Our supplies of atavism have been stockpiling unused for the last 60 years.

Time for a trip to the wharehouse, to unleash the beast? :)


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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:00 pm 
Remember that you haven't lost until the last person gives up.

The outlook may be grim but I haven't known you to be a quitter.


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 Post subject: Re: With a heavy heart …
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:12 pm 
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Cobaltoutbound wrote:
Remember that you haven't lost until the last person gives up.

The outlook may be grim but I haven't known you to be a quitter.


Not quitting ... just moving the battlefield. Only a fool commits to battle on the ground of the enemy's chosing.

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