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 Post subject: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:56 am 
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It is probably too far-fetched a comparison, but – as one watches the train-wreck of the world economy lurch over the precipice – one begins to detect a whiff of something that smells rather like the Weimar culture.

There is that same air of decadence, the same hedonistic approach to life, the obsession with sex, culture, entertainment - the same "live for today" feel, with the chattering classes preoccupied with "self" and their own petty obsessions, oblivious to the impending disaster, only just over the horizon.

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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:42 am 
I can assure you that we're in far, far too deep.

The previous 'wave' of revolutionary action sublimated traditional institutions. The condensation period we are in; solidification, albeit temporal, is next. It isnt' be WW2 style as the lessons have been learnt. Why and (to) what may be the questions to ask yourself.

As I gleam from 'academia'.


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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:03 am 
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Richard wrote:
It is probably too far-fetched a comparison, but – as one watches the train-wreck of the world economy lurch over the precipice – one begins to detect a whiff of something that smells rather like the Weimar culture.


Sadly, your post truly has the ring of truth. I’ve been thinking along very similar lines these last few weeks, the whole deal, a financial crash caused by the perversion of lending standards to further a socialist political doctrine and an inept and meddlesome bureaucracy, the over running of the US, UK and Europe by immigrants who bring a destructive agenda and a rapid and destabilising demographic change, and the icing on the cake, is that a socialist radical like Barack Hussein Obama, an obvious tool of domestic terrorist Ayers, who’s clearly announced agenda is no less than the destruction of our economy and government can be so close to the Presidency of the U.S.A. Regardless of whether he wins or loses, that a man with such an agenda and such associates can make it this far with the media and academia - both domestic and “European” - cheering him on in between promoting bread and circuses clearly indicates that we are truly sunk, perhaps not this election or this market decline, but the writing is on the wall and destruction gets closer and closer.

Today a very knowledgeable business associate observed that some of the sell off we are seeing in the markets is ahead of the election as fear mounts that Obama will win. He predicts an Obama win will be sufficient catalyst to send the market on its next down-leg to about 62% off of the high. This would be destructive for the U.S. economy resulting in rising unemployment, more corporate failures and so on. That in turn would likely spur the next down-leg which could result in a long, tedious slog to recover from looking at Japan as a model, this could mean 16 years or more in the dumps. The implications for economies worldwide is obvious and bleak.

Another associate was asking my opinion on possible places to move his family outside the USA, quizzing me about Vancouver, etc. with “Europe" not even on the list for obvious reasons. Hearing that from an archetypal and successful All American Boy with deep domestic roots was very depressing.

Personally, I believe that McCain will win, and that Palin’s energy policies and the restored confidence of investors will bring in a period of prosperity, with a market recovery starting 6-9 months later, not more than 18, but the point remains that in the longer run we are seemingly doomed to decline. (Sadly I don’t see that recovery extending to the UK, on the contrary, the smart bet will be to short the Pound and the Euro.) It’s no mystery why about 80% of former Weatherman terrorists not in prison have gone on to become university professors. Obviously it is part of their plan to subvert us from within, with Ayers as the standard bearer and Obama as his obvious political weapon. Well they can lose this battle but still are winning the larger war, with their fellow travellers taking down the UK and Europe with a similar beneficial crisis strategy.

The international end-game is indeed very ugly to anticipate, collapsing economies, formerly free and democratic nations becoming controlled by the post-democratic EU and a leftist super majority in the US, and an emerging Shiite nuclear power to join a Sunni nuclear power. It’s not at all far fetched to imagine the rise of fascist demagogues, civil unrest and civil war resulting in what would be called the modern Dark Ages, assuming anyone remains to write the history. Please someone enlighten me as to why the victory of the free world in WWII was so unfulfilling that there arose such an agenda to destroy from within the hard won victory and prosperity?

Meanwhile, the new Rome burns while Nero plays the fiddle. Family values have been replaced with an obsession with gay marriage, sexual perversion, infanticide and a worship of personal choice. Hope and change have replaced reason and commonsense. Who is really to blame? The self obsessed subversive media and liberal elite who mock our traditions and beliefs? Or the self obsessed viewers, readers and voters who thrive and live vicariously on the soap operatic dramas that have replaced journalism and prefer style, quirky personality and tantalizing gossip over substance, vital issues and wisdom?

Weimar culture: In the words of Marcus Bullock, professor of English at UW-Milwaukee, "Remarkable for the way it emerged from a catastrophe, more remarkable for the way it vanished into a still greater catastrophe, the world of Weimar represents modernism in its most vivid manifestation."

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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:50 am 
Look: this is an economic cycle and they're, as always, time-compressed. Technology mitigates, and amplifies, with some kind of dampening force although this, as Moore's Law, is not a fact. Riding chaos.

There is a lack of honesty amongst all participants regarding the actual situation that is being pressed with fake, political, force. The so called Left are as deluded as are the so called Right. While Pragmatism in national senses leads to, say, Fascism, I ask what do you want?

The E.U. dies. Fair enough. What then?


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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:42 am 
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/moved to Financial thread

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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:07 am 
The immediate picture is obvious to all. What is not so obvious is that the radical left has been permitted all of this leeway in the U.S., because they weren't really hurting anyone. Over the past several decades, we can clearl see that civil rights did need to be addressed, feminism needed to be addressed, pollution needed to be addressed.

Where we made our error was in assuming that the people who were promoting those issues for the past 30 years were the problem solvers. They are not, they are hangers on ridng the wake of the real heros. Those problems had already been recognized and the responsible American people via their government had addressed them through the legislative process. It takes time for an entire civilization to embrace, assimilate and live change. After the real heros had done the hard work, these Alinsky inspired activists, sometimes actually financially backed by Marxists, the KGB, and radical Islamists hijacked these very noble causes and used them to mask their attacks on our society.

Civil rights was reduced to protests demanding hand-outs, Johnson's War on Poverty, which propagated more poverty than the U.S. every had, which nearly destroyed the family structure of the black community and has resulted in another generation of angry undereducated people. There is yet a thriving black community of conservatives. You don't hear about them, Bill Cosby is one of their spokespeople. There are many more. Feminism likewise was hijacked. The current state of the movement is that to be truly a liberated woman, you must neuter yourself, via birth control and abortion and become a sexual utility in uncommitted relationships. The only way to be a liberated woman is to be liberated from being a woman. Meanwhile, the sexual revolution has become so depraved as to start sexualizing young children. Handling pollution has deteriorated to the green terrorists who are teaching "organic" farming to starving Africans when they need equipment, fertilizers and insecticides to produce sufficient quantities of food to actually feed themselves. They are now demonizing carbon dioxide, upon which vegitation thrives. It is utter insanity and depravity.

All of these movements are obsolete and everyone currently involved in those activities has been scammed. The work is already done and is proceeding apace by the real movers of society, the real scientists who continue to refine and improve old energy technologies and who are simultaneously working on new ones; the real businessmen, engineers and leaders; and the real workers who make these things happen.

The American people have been asleep at the wheel. We have had our shoulders to the grindstone as always. Right now, we are pausing to re-assess, and the election will reveal what we have discovered.

I think that Obama's campaign has brought to high relief the corruption, decadence and destruction of the iberal socialist agenda. The imediate public response to Sarah Palin is the barometer. She is the real post-feminist woman. Strong, vibrant, independent, feminine, maternal and loyal. That is what we idenfity with and are ourselves striving to attain. A reformation is upon us. It will be for the best and the socialists will be a long running joke for many generations.

The media has been ridiculing Govenor Palin, but she gives them their best ratings. Numbers talk.

Think of the American people as a bear and the liberal socalist sector of the society as an annoying insect. It is about to be swatted. The markets will reverse their decline; energy production will be pursued with a vengence, and President McCain will balance the budget within 4 years. The rest of the world will be dragged upward, perhaps with a sigh of relief. They will get to decide for themselves whether or not they want to play the greatest game ever, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...or go back to whining about how unfair it is while indulging in their self destructive socialist fantasies.

Best regards,
Gail


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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:32 am 
And what happened after the Weimar Republic fell...

Bertolt Brecht's poem To Posterity - "Truly, the age I live in is bleak..." -should be posted up on billboards.

God help us all, to paraphrase Tiny Tim - including those who believe in Richard Dawkins.


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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:22 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
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Gail, it's all gone quiet over here re Palin. The British media is so solidly Obama that Palin only gets occaisionally mentioned, and that derogatorially. I personally love the idea of a Governor saying 'Oops we're taking too much tax, you better have some back'. Even if she didn't quite do that, don't tell me, I wish to dream that it possible that there should be a Brave New World that has such politicos in it. Certainly as the US struggles through the snow to the polling stations, voting to spend billions on Global Warming will seem absurd.

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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:06 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 1291
Location: UK
Bagua wrote:
It’s not at all far fetched to imagine the rise of fascist demagogues, civil unrest and civil war resulting in what would be called the modern Dark Ages...

The unknown is if and when the populous is going to get angry and demand action. The EU system of government is designed to protect an administrative ruling class, using a Byzantine complexity incompatible with effective delivery. Anyone seriously setting out to change this will have to break the system, or at national level break out of the system.

For a UK government to exit the EU, and to repatriate other responsibilities from the tranzies, will require drastic legislation, strongly driven through. Establishing functionality to replace the “hollowed out” institutions would have to happen fast, necessitating strong executive powers. At what stage does this become facism ?

Bagua wrote:
Please someone enlighten me as to why the victory of the free world in WWII was so unfulfilling that there arose such an agenda to destroy from within the hard won victory and prosperity?

In the UK, I think that it blind sided us (us as in Joe public). We have the mother of parliaments, we had heroically defeated totalitarianism. As the Soviet threat faded - job done – no more need for “eternal vigilance” - we deserved some slack. So, not so much “asleep at the wheel” as in a deep coma.


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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:10 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:14 am
Posts: 312
Location: The Heights of High Wycombe
Damn it. I read Richard's article, have all these witty and cogent comments bubbling away in my mind, which I am anxious to impart for your general information and everything has been said. You ratbags! PDT_Armataz_01_37 PDT_Armataz_01_37 PDT_Armataz_01_37 PDT_Armataz_01_37

All I'm left with is "Cabaret". PDT_Armataz_01_19 Mutter, mutter, mutter.

Perry

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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:14 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:14 am
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Location: The Heights of High Wycombe
Gail,

Absolutely spot on!!

Perry

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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:05 am 
Gail,

A well written post and one which, I feel, accurately sums up the current situation we find ourselves in.


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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:57 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
Posts: 4434
Gail

I hope yr right.

Bagua.

Yes some panic must be because of the "chosen One", he will make Carter look like Reagan.

Richard.

The ex-Torygraph calling for King's replacement at this time, has to be the most stupid idea they have yet dreamt up, in what is becoming a long list of stupidity. King has been right throughout this crisis and all the criticism has either been from Bankers squealing for more cheap money, to save their undeserving backsides, or from that even more lousy bunch of cretins in No 10, leaking to save their sorry arses, attempting to deflect blame away from McBusts monumental cock up, the FSA.


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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:01 pm 
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Gail.....see Drudge on Buchanan today; Buchanan on Michelle.
....I enjoyed your post...everything else leaves me horrified.
It would be of some help if we understood that Britain did not win WW2...we lost everything we had and more...we just happened to be on the winning side.

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 Post subject: Re: A smell of decadence
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:40 pm 
Top rants all around folks, well done!

Bur I don't think we're on the verge of some fascist tumult, there simply aren't the class forces for it. We don't have hordes of angry and disgruntled defeated soldiers humiliated by the occupation of the Rhineland and a treaty of Versailles yearning for the re-birth of Germany.

From the Naked Communist (Cleon Skousen)
Noted in U.S. Congressional Record on January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals:
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography, drug abuse, and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture."

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems."

All of the above should seem awfully familiar anyone, even if they do not know the source of these ideas, especially 17, 22, 38, 40 and 41. Especially 22.

"From the Naked Communist (Cleon Skousen)
Noted in U.S. Congressional Record on January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals:
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture."

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems."

Yuri Bezmenov KGB defector explains the activities the KGB would engage in, something which corrupted universities have informally continued since the fall of the Soviet Union:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGRn8YEsdsA&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srw3YSda1XY


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