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 Post subject: We're not asking
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:46 am 
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Raedwald offers a useful perspective in his piece this morning, picking up on the Old Swan meeting. Appealing to our masters to give us some democracy back is "like requesting clemency from Heydrich", he says. "We don't request, we demand our freedom".

That is the essence of a movement, as distinct from a political party. We are not appealing to the people for votes – we are the people. We make our votes – and our consent to be governed - conditional on certain reforms to the system.

Such was the stance of the Chartists, and we are adopting the same line. We will frame our demands and then pursue them single-mindedly. The politicians who agree to our demands will get our votes, and our co-operation. Until then, it is no deal.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:54 am 

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Is it a coincidence that the hotel also holds murder mystery weekends? PDT_Armataz_01_22

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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:39 am 
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TheBoilingFrog wrote:
Is it a coincidence that the hotel also holds murder mystery weekends? PDT_Armataz_01_22


I did not know that ... but didn't Agatha Christie disappear in Harrogate?

A thought occurs ...

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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:56 am
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Well said Dr North. A movement can win: Though publicity would help, not least in encouraging interest.

Your article here reminded me of a verse in Shellys' poem that foretells of the englishmens final struggle to be free:

"Let a vast assembly be,
And with great solemnity
Declare with measured words that ye
Are, as God has made ye, free—" Shelly (Masque of Anarchy).

Your link to the Tamworth Manifesto has left me shocked. There is a link within that article to "Municipal Corporations" that is as relevant now as it was then. It shows that municipal councils: 250 of them, were granted the right to incorporate by William lV. I had foolishly assumed (never wise) that municipal bodies incorporated in or around 1939 as was the case with the UK. This new information makes comprehension much easier. So many thanks for that link.


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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:06 pm
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Location: Wakefield
RAENORTH wrote:
TheBoilingFrog wrote:
Is it a coincidence that the hotel also holds murder mystery weekends? PDT_Armataz_01_22


I did not know that ... but didn't Agatha Christie disappear in Harrogate?

A thought occurs ...


She actually disappeared from home in 1926 and reappeared at the Old Swan some days later. By then, I can only imagine she was bored stiff, and very glad to go home again.

I confidently expect that your planned get-together will be much more interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Ooooh, posh. I don't mind bierkellers myself.

Agreed that it needs to stay non-partisan. The trouble with backing a particular party is that it restricts what you can do and say, and it means that people will pre-judge you based on existing prejudices. It is better to apply pressure from the outside.


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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:24 pm 
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By the way, I've just seen this at Ekklesia:
Quote:
Our politics has become false and self-serving. The public is reacting with a mixture of cynicism, despair, apathy and anger. Politicians are seen as opportunists for whom no photo opportunity or piece of self-promotion is too ridiculous. Government has been exposed as deceitful and careless of the consequences of its actions. It is time to consider what part our culture has played in reaching this nadir in democratic governance.
I get the impression that many religious people just vote Labour or Lib Dem out of habit, false hope and intellectual laziness. They tend to be highly motivated, though, so if they can be engaged they could be powerful allies.


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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:36 pm 

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Location: The European State of Insanity
Labour and the Lib Dems between them managed to connive a belief that their top-down redistributionist and enforced "caring" message was the same as the biblical call for individuals to care for one another in times of need. Taxes = charity now, according to my brother.

Most of my immediate family vote tory and always have, but they also buy the idea that "society" needs to be administered by an all-knowing state. It's hard trying to convince them otherwise... somehow, out of the same religious background I've come to a libertarian viewpoint and they've come to the statist one.

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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:16 pm 

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Religion + Statism = Roman Catholicism ???

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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:41 am 
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The German Pirate Party, which supports digital democracy, is apparently running at about 10% in the polls.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 49932.html

Maybe they'll disappear in a puff of smoke. One to watch, though.

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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:24 am 
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John Page wrote:
The German Pirate Party, which supports digital democracy, is apparently running at about 10% in the polls.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 49932.html

Maybe they'll disappear in a puff of smoke. One to watch, though.


I don't know enough about German politics to be able to tell whether this is a lasting phenomenon or not. You are right,though, it could build up into something interesting ... mind you ten percent is interesting enough in its own right.

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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:36 am 
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It looks as if Peter Hitchens has the same idea.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ ... e-off.html


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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:46 am 
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Bluemerle wrote:
It looks as if Peter Hitchens has the same idea.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ ... e-off.html


Galloway had some serious money behind him ... I doubt Hitchens has the same resource. But I rather fear he is wasting his time. Change comes from without ... getting elected to parliament is simply to get sucked into the system and neutralised.

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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:43 am 
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Open Europe now reporting a German opinion poll putting the Pirate Party ahead of the Greens for the first time, at 13%.

Of course what goes up can come down just as fast. But it's outside the traditional parties, and so intriguing.

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 Post subject: Re: We're not asking
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Location: Burton upon Trent
RAENORTH wrote:
Bluemerle wrote:
It looks as if Peter Hitchens has the same idea.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ ... e-off.html


Galloway had some serious money behind him ... I doubt Hitchens has the same resource. But I rather fear he is wasting his time. Change comes from without ... getting elected to parliament is simply to get sucked into the system and neutralised.


I recall my Grammar School headmaster, Horace Pitchford, telling the story about how he had deliberated for weeks on who to vote for in the 1950's and on the way to the polling station he had helped an old lady across the road with a bit af paper in her hand with the name of other contestant in the election. repeating it over to herself so she didn't get it wrong.

And nothings changed. 1997 at Swadlincote thay had their opportunity, what a candidate! It all fell on deaf ears and until someone comes up with a plan that breaks the party system we are all doomed?

Guy Fawkes had the best idea?


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