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 Post subject: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:18 am 
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Location: Bradford
It is Council Tax time again and the thieves are out to play, demanding money with menaces. The Raging Tory has a risk-free idea for tormenting our tormentors. There are some others, making up the essence of a guerrilla war against those who are too powerful to confront directly.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:20 pm 
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RAENORTH wrote:
But, actually, we get something of that every year. Approximate one in four (25 percent) of households in Bradford refuse to pay their tax until they receive summonses. There has been a low-level rebellion for years – just that the media does not report it.

View full article here

But last Thursday they started to try a different method of rebellion. Given the chance I would have voted for Galloway.

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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:30 pm
Posts: 45
Even better I find, is when my bin is not collected or rubbish is left by the binmen I deduct a weeks worth of council tax on the basis that I will not pay for a service that is not provided. Yes, last year I had threatening letters about bailiffs and court proceedings and still waiting............

They then added the shortfall to this years bill, in response to which I reminded them how long the wait for Godot was.


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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:28 am
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Why do English Council Tax Bands end at Band H £320,000 and above?* Surely, the introduction of several more bands would permit more money to be raised locally and enable owners of higher value properties to contribute a fairer share of the local budget. In conjunction with the extra money raised locally there must be a matching reduction of central government grant.

* I suggest that it is to benefit those self-same "wealth-earners" who won't get out of bed for less than 55% of their salaries over £150k. They have the ears at dinner parties of those who can change things, and those who change things never meet ordinary people except when they pay their cleaners cash-in-hand.


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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Location: Bradford
Brian wrote:
Why do English Council Tax Bands end at Band H £320,000 and above?* Surely, the introduction of several more bands would permit more money to be raised locally and enable owners of higher value properties to contribute a fairer share of the local budget. In conjunction with the extra money raised locally there must be a matching reduction of central government grant.

* I suggest that it is to benefit those self-same "wealth-earners" who won't get out of bed for less than 55% of their salaries over £150k. They have the ears at dinner parties of those who can change things, and those who change things never meet ordinary people except when they pay their cleaners cash-in-hand.


Wasn't that what the mansion tax was all about? But surely such considerations are cart before the horse. I would suggest as much attention might be given to cutting unnecessary local authority spending.

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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 805
RAENORTH wrote:
Brian wrote:
Why do English Council Tax Bands end at Band H £320,000 and above?* Surely, the introduction of several more bands would permit more money to be raised locally and enable owners of higher value properties to contribute a fairer share of the local budget. In conjunction with the extra money raised locally there must be a matching reduction of central government grant.

* I suggest that it is to benefit those self-same "wealth-earners" who won't get out of bed for less than 55% of their salaries over £150k. They have the ears at dinner parties of those who can change things, and those who change things never meet ordinary people except when they pay their cleaners cash-in-hand.


Wasn't that what the mansion tax was all about? But surely such considerations are cart before the horse. I would suggest as much attention might be given to cutting unnecessary local authority spending.


Fair enough. But what one person thinks is unnecessary local authority spending may not be to another. Eg in Bradford (and Coventry), provision of translaters and multi-lingual leaflets and forms would polarise communities.
How about giving Council Tax Payers vouchers for the items they want. Eg young parents can choose to get childcare and schooling but pay for other services and the elderly can get homecare vouchers, free buses etc if they wish. Pick, Mix and Pay.
As for senior public servants, impose a cap on salaries and benefits in kind for new recruitment and suggest that they test the market rate in the private sector or overseas if unhappy.
As for excessive private sector pay, fine so long as they accept unlimited liability for any financial losses of their organisations and personal liability for criminal behavior of their company, no hiding behind corporate liability.


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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 805
Meanwhile in Greece ....
The innocent always come off worst.


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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:00 am
Posts: 472
La Réveil du Peuple.

or

An Awakening an Phobail
Evigilantem Populi
Das Erwachen des Volkes
El despertar de los pueblos
Probuzení z lidu
Het ontwaken van het volk
Το ξύπνημα του λαού
Az ébredés a People
Il Risveglio del Popolo
Atmodas tautas
Tautos pabudimas
Il-Qawmien tal-Poplu
O Despertar do Povo
Prebudenie z ľudu
Prebujanje ljudi
Uppvaknandet av folket
Mae'r Awakening y Bobl
La vekiĝo de la Popolo

I think that covers most council taxed.

There must be a song!


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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:48 pm 
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I've got a better idea. Abolish council tax altogether. Local Authorities can be allocated funds via central taxation (which to a large extent they are anyway). This would force them to live within their means instead of dunning the local householders.

As for taxing property well it already is - through stamp duty - and in this neck of the woods just about everyone gets hit - £250k doesn't get you much here.

Our taxation system is a corrupt mess, and needs sorting out, though when, if, and by whom I have no idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 39
Jazz606 wrote:
I've got a better idea. Abolish council tax altogether. Local Authorities can be allocated funds via central taxation (which to a large extent they are anyway). This would force them to live within their means instead of dunning the local householders.

As for taxing property well it already is - through stamp duty - and in this neck of the woods just about everyone gets hit - £250k doesn't get you much here.

Our taxation system is a corrupt mess, and needs sorting out, though when, if, and by whom I have no idea.


and make all civil servants self employed...?


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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Jazz606 wrote:
I've got a better idea. Abolish council tax altogether. Local Authorities can be allocated funds via central taxation (which to a large extent they are anyway). This would force them to live within their means instead of dunning the local householders.

As for taxing property well it already is - through stamp duty - and in this neck of the woods just about everyone gets hit - £250k doesn't get you much here.

Our taxation system is a corrupt mess, and needs sorting out, though when, if, and by whom I have no idea.


How can you have local government if it is reliant on central government for funding? He who pays the piper, and all that.

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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:54 pm 
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RAENORTH wrote:
Jazz606 wrote:
I've got a better idea. Abolish council tax altogether. Local Authorities can be allocated funds via central taxation (which to a large extent they are anyway). This would force them to live within their means instead of dunning the local householders.

As for taxing property well it already is - through stamp duty - and in this neck of the woods just about everyone gets hit - £250k doesn't get you much here.

Our taxation system is a corrupt mess, and needs sorting out, though when, if, and by whom I have no idea.


How can you have local government if it is reliant on central government for funding? He who pays the piper, and all that.




Think of the poor taxpayer, not only are they paying for the piper they're paying for the whole band.


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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:40 am 

Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:47 pm
Posts: 24
Location: East Grinstead
I have for some years paid parking fines by getting bags of pennies from banks, slit them open, and delivering (as a pretend courier) a large box lined with several carrier bags to reception to the fines dept.

If they really want my money that bad, they can get on their knees and count it, penny by penny.

You must NOT take it to the dept, as they can refuse excess coinage.

Alan Douglas

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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:16 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 1291
Location: UK
RAENORTH wrote:
Jazz606 wrote:
I've got a better idea. Abolish council tax altogether. Local Authorities can be allocated funds via central taxation (which to a large extent they are anyway). This would force them to live within their means instead of dunning the local householders.........


How can you have local government if it is reliant on central government for funding? He who pays the piper, and all that.


Re. the discussions on constitutional change etc. I think that the key insight is Referism, so I would use that as a framework. What is the mechanism for Referism and what constitutional change is needed for it to work ? Other "random" demands on constitutional change not locked to Referism will just be hijacked and neutralised by TPTB, IMO.

What do you need ? 1x national level legislature, 1 national level elected executive (administering the national Referist voted budget) 1 set of local level elected executives, administering the locally voted Referist budget. Some form of directly elected constitutional body to oversee / mediate ? For example, the legislature could not pass laws that impose budgetary burdens bypassing Referism - e.g. "rights" to X,Y or Z that need funding.


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 Post subject: Re: Thieves out to play
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:11 am
Posts: 892
Location: Co. Durham
More troughing.

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