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 Post subject: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:03 pm 
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ThePurple Scorpion picks up something I might have missed – a comment in The Spectator by Fraser Nelson last Friday, in the wake of the Galloway win, charging that, "the government is lucky that UKIP is so dismally led".

I don't know that leadership has been solely responsible for UKIP's poor electoral performance, but it can't help. A measure of its dismal performance, however, can be seen its complete failure even to mention the "pasty tax" debacle – one of many EU-related issues, on which UKIP has no opinion.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:31 pm 

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Going by that piece, Fraser Nelson also appears to back continuing membership of the EU. As posters have errr posted on his piece - Nelson is part of the Westminster Village and therefore part of the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:43 pm 

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One could also suggest that UKIP are better off without Mr Hussein, who seems to be less concerned about his prospective constituents and more about his own personal advancement. In my limited knowledge of this, or course, it seems that Mr Hussein jumped the UKIP ship because he saw the labour party as giving him what must have seemed to be a guaranteed seat.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:19 pm 
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RAENORTH wrote:
I don't know what lessons we can learn from that, but one can't help but wonder if history might have been different, had UKIP again fielded an Asian candidate.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you suggesting that, other things being equal, an asian candidate would more likely to appeal to asian voters? 

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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:38 pm 

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Quote:
I don't know what lessons we can learn from that, but one can't help but wonder if history might have been different, had UKIP again fielded an Asian candidate.


If you can't beat 'em join 'em.....particularly one that demanded our troops out of Afghanistan immediately (without the "foreign invading force" nonsense one would hope),at least that would have offered something a bit more appealing to the local Asian population.But let us face it, it may have gained a 1000 votes at best.Galloway has practically converted to Islam to get this size of a majority so I would guess Iraq/Afghanistan was a big part in clinching that.

We want our troops out for different reasons though,the Asian community because WE are the enemy, us because we are not winning anything by staying.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:48 pm 

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A lot of people change their minds about a subject, that's how Galloway got Bradford West. I wonder if Galloway would describe Imran Hussein as 'a political opportunist'?

Richard wrote -

Quote:
a candidate who shared the same name.........


The caution is wise as Bradford suffers from a mix of corruption and nepotism particular to the Asian community, it's called 'baraderi'. So Imran Hussein and Imran Hussein could be father and son. How do we find out more?


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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:50 pm 
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john in cheshire wrote:
One could also suggest that UKIP are better off without Mr Hussein, who seems to be less concerned about his prospective constituents and more about his own personal advancement. In my limited knowledge of this, or course, it seems that Mr Hussein jumped the UKIP ship because he saw the labour party as giving him what must have seemed to be a guaranteed seat.


Two different people. Very common name. And the point was not that we should have fielded Imran Hussein. Rather, the point is that, had we continued with the initiative of building bridges with the Asian community, which we started in 2001, then UKIP might have done better in this election

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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:55 pm 

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Your post makes me exceedingly depressed - yet unfortunately it's right

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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:21 pm 

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Nigel's EUKIP does not do strategy, tactics or planning which is why it is going nowhere and is part of the problem and no part of the solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:22 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:25 pm
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In Melanie Phillips' opinion.

Quote:
Galloway won because young Bradford Muslims turned out for him in droves. They did not vote for him because he was promising them better public services. They did not vote for him, indeed, on account of any British domestic issues. They did so because he tailored his message to appeal to their religious passions and prejudices about conflicts abroad.




http://www.theway.co.uk/news-8782-gallo ... al-muslims

It also appears we have Livingstone playing the same game, now no doubt bolstered by Galloway's success

Quote:
In a speech last month at the radical Finsbury Park mosque in London, Livingstone more than amply confirmed such fears. For he pledged to 'educate the mass of Londoners' in Islam, saying this would help to cement London as a 'beacon' for the faith.

Since when was making London a 'beacon' for a foreign religion a legitimate goal for any British politician, let alone a priority for a British city mayor? This was simply no less than the Muslim Brotherhood's own seditious goal. And this is a man who as Mayor of London would have control of the Metropolitan Police?



Turning London into a "beacon for Islam"?.......nice.Cannot see UKIP getting a look in there either.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:26 pm 

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Ukip's manifesto includes "Ban the burka and veiled niqab in public buildings and certain private buildings". Right or wrong, it's not going to help the Ukip vote in constituencies such as Bradford West.

I haven't read the Fraser Nelson piece but he's on record as saying that he supports the EU because, inter alia, it made it easier for him to marry his Swedish wife. I'm not making this up.

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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:41 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
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Sonja McNally right, I do think that the UKIP missed a trick and I'm surprised no one has really cottoned on, to me it is obvious.

The utopian bonkers idealism of equality and diversity is being rolled back in Bradford as if it never existed - equality, yuman rites don't count innit - so deliciously ironic, Frankfurt school Marxist ideology trounced by the minority grouping.

The Tories backed an able Asian candidate in 2010, male Asian Zahid Iqbal who polled 12,000+ votes, they fielded [I'm sure] an equally good candidate in Jackie Whiteley who garnered 2,700 crosses - now I know the Red Tories were coming onto a caning but fielding a female candidate in a strongly Muslim area is asking to be mullered - yep not PC - but nonetheless absolutely true, same goes for Sonja - who for other reasons [UKIP's crap canvassing and rank amateurish = nige-lite ethos - "everybody has heard of us haven't they"?] had absolutely no chance.

UKIP will never make inroads into areas such as these [BD WEST] it is seen as very white ex-tory. But if they want to be taken half seriously - it must start to appeal to the white working class labour voter who has been disenfranchised by the Champagne Socialists of Labour and Miliband the lesser's metropolitan luvvie effete elite.............. .

I will still vote UKIP, what is the alternative?


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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:28 am
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Ravenscar wrote:
I will still vote UKIP, what is the alternative?


Referism? Let's pimp our votes to whichever party will do our bidding. If The Referism Movement could offer, on the basis of anonymised membership records, say 1,500 votes in marginal constituency X, etc, then our power-hungry parties might sit up and rewrite their manifestos to include elements of the Referist Charter.


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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:12 pm 
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People citing Fraser's support for the EU are avoiding his point, presumably deliberately.

His point is simply that UKIP is dismally led. He's not making any point about UKIP's central policy, just that it is being dismally led.

Of course I agree.

I'll be interested to see how The Old Swan manages to swerve around UKIP and aim at the core issues in political debate.

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 Post subject: Re: Dismally led
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:13 pm 
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John Archer wrote:
RAENORTH wrote:
I don't know what lessons we can learn from that, but one can't help but wonder if history might have been different, had UKIP again fielded an Asian candidate.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you suggesting that, other things being equal, an asian candidate would more likely to appeal to asian voters?

Yes, it's a tricky one, that — never mind a can, there's a whole warehouse full of worms in that one, potentially.

Shhh!

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