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 Post subject: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:33 am 
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Although the Daily Mail does the Tibury power plant fire big, the one thing it does not mention is spontaneous combustion.

Opened in 1969, Tilbury previously operated as a coal-fired power station but has been converted to generate power from 100 percent sustainable biomass until its scheduled closure at the end of 2015. Now on fire, the seat was reported to be 4-6,000 tons of biomass in a wood pellet hopper high up in the power station building.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:39 am 
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Reminds me of when we were kids and we used to play in the piles of cut grass in our garden. I remember being fascinated by how hot the centre of the piles got when they were decomposing.

A plausible explanation.


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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:19 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1862
According to this lengthy pdf: TILBURY POWER STATION BIOMASS CONVERSION SCHEME

The original idea was to have 60,000 tonnes worth of storage silos on the site. But then... [indicated as page 21]

Quote:
During consultation with relevant statutory authorities at the time a
screening opinion on the need or otherwise for EIA for the biomass conversion scheme was requested from Thurrock Thames Gateway Development Corporation, it became clear that English Heritage in particular would oppose a development involving biomass fuel silos on the scale and location RWEn had proposed.


RWE/Npower instead opted to use the existing coal bunkers. The subsequent reduction in external changes handily meant the planning authority decided no Environmental Impact Assessment was needed.

There seems to me to be a major difference between having 60,000 tonnes of appropriate storage versus the few thousand tonnes of existing internal storage.


EDIT: To correct the page number


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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:29 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:31 pm
Posts: 364
gareth wrote:
According to this lengthy pdf: TILBURY POWER STATION BIOMASS CONVERSION SCHEME

The original idea was to have 60,000 tonnes worth of storage silos on the site. But then... [indicated as page 22]

Quote:
During consultation with relevant statutory authorities at the time a
screening opinion on the need or otherwise for EIA for the biomass conversion scheme was requested from Thurrock Thames Gateway Development Corporation, it became clear that English Heritage in particular would oppose a development involving biomass fuel silos on the scale and location RWEn had proposed.


RWE/Npower instead opted to use the existing coal bunkers. The subsequent reduction in external changes handily meant the planning authority decided no Environmental Impact Assessment was needed.

There seems to me to be a major difference between having 60,000 tonnes of appropriate storage versus the few thousand tonnes of existing internal storage.

On a positive note, if the fire is indeed wood pellets, our local rednecks would break out the briskets and ribs and have them a barbecue! Might as well have SOME good to come from the misfortune...

By the way, I wonder what the CO2 output is from one of them wood-burning plants? I seem to recall wood burning stoves and such are extremely unpopular with the green monsters over here...


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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:33 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 295
So, we've had auto-combusting windmills and now biomass - is there anything combustible in solar panels? - he says hopefully.

Summer = sunshine >> a prize to the first frazzled rooftop subsidy collector.

A bonfire of "The Renewables"? ... bring it on.


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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:18 am 
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Posts: 239
GIYF

Quote:
Commack, NY (SmithtownRadio.com) – A fire Monday afternoon up top a Commack home was quickly extinguished.
A Commack fire marshal and Commack Fire Department chief were first on scene around 3:30pm as solar panels up top 6 Negal Street caught fire.


http://www.smithtownradio.com/2012/01/0 ... n-commack/


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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:39 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:30 pm
Posts: 527
A long time ago (about 10 years!) I had occasion to compose a Creed for the Global Warming religion, as it then was.

In times of trouble and grief this may be a very present help. They appear to be suffering quite badly, so I offer it again:

The AGW Creed

appointed to be read at all environmental conferences


I believe in Global Warming,
which will destroy heaven and earth unless we change our ways.
I believe in Al Gore,
Who conceived the Internet
and the hockey-stick graph, born of Professor Mann.
It suffered under McIntyre and McKitrick,
was crucified, disproven, and was buried.
It was cast on the reject pile.
On the third day It rose again.
It was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science,
and is displayed in a prominent position in all IPCC literature.
It will apply again as soon as global temperatures start rising.
I believe in the CO2 tipping point,
the IPCC Assessment Reports,
a CO2 sensitivity figure of about 3 W/sq M,
the accuracy of GCMS,
an anthropic cause for all climate variation after 1970,
and grants everlasting.

AMEN.


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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:05 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:27 am
Posts: 90
I'm waiting for the greenies to call for biomass power to be banned.

After all, two tiny earth tremors (about as much vibration as someone shutting a door) were more than enough for them to call for shale gas to be outlawed.


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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:07 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 142
I have had two experiences of spontaneous combustion fires in animal feed products. In both cases, it was the moisture content which was the problem. It warmed up like a garden compost heap and, having a high oil content, burst into flames easily. I spent one Christmas holiday, tracing mill managers at home and warning them to pull the product out of their buildings as we had noticed it beginning to warm up.

In another case, bagged product came into the old fashioned part of a mill building which had wooden beams and caught fire. The fire became quite intense between the top of the product stack and the beams. Being wood, they just charred to the depth of an inch or so. If they had been steel, they would have buckled with expansion and the whole building would have become unusable.

Back in the Fifties we had a farmer neighbour who always had to be first with everything. He built his haystacks when the hay had not dried and - sure enough - it heated up. He had to pull hay out of the middle of the stack to allow the air to circulate and cool it down. Not wanting the neighbours to know, he did this after dusk but was still spotted. Little is secret in the countryside. When he came to check the stack in the morning, somebody had put a couple of hedge stakes across the top of the hole and balanced a frying pan with an egg and a rasher of bacon on top.

Moisture testing is fairly easy and quick. One would have thought that it was routine at a plant as large as a power station.


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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:51 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:14 am
Posts: 312
Location: The Heights of High Wycombe
Drax operators look to have made the correct call.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/selby_t ... ass_plant/

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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:41 am 
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Pericles wrote:
Drax operators look to have made the correct call.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/selby_t ... ass_plant/


For reasons other than fire risk, but they have been spared that!

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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:09 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
Posts: 1441
Tilbury used to burn coal to produce power, so too Drax - which now burns owt [biomass whatever] and coal.

What perplexes me and call me a stick-in-the-mud, a pragmatist if you like. I mean, I'm maybe not as green as the next bod but in the recent cold days of February just passed, upwards of 50% of our power was provided by............YES you've guessed it = COAL!
What with the EU credits [carbon subsidy] being cut in the near term [which will add an enormous financial burden on Drax] and eventual closure imminent under the LCPD - there is going to be a considerable [fekkin great big black hole] in our ability to produce enough electricity to warm homes - let alone fire the engines of industry.

Quote:
The plants have run for a total of 97,218 hours between January 2008 and February 2011, equivalent to 51.17 percent of their quota. The programme still has nearly five years to run but LCPD forces eight UK coal-fired units to close after 20,000 hours and three oil-fired plants to close after 10,000 hours of operation, or by December 31, 2015, whichever comes first. At this rate, the entire estate could be closing down up to two years early.


So said Doc North in 2011, I reckon he is about right - 2013 will be the year of the cuts - black-outs, I mean.

CB on the case too, Dave's case that is......

What is it going to take for these nutters to see sense? Or, do they really want mass protest, it comes down to either telling the EU to go forth and multiply and also to "stuff the green energy agenda" or it will mean Dave's premature end - what's it gonna be DAVE?

Show us who you really care about Dave, us or the EU?


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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:37 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:47 pm
Posts: 489
Location: Lytham St Annes, Lancashire, England
RAENORTH wrote:
... So hazardous are large quantities of stored biomass that it is a reasonable proposition to argue that no large plant is likely to run through to its end of expected life without a serious fire. ... [/url]

Imagine the outcry if the power stations were nuclear.


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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:48 am 
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WilliamGruff wrote:
RAENORTH wrote:
... So hazardous are large quantities of stored biomass that it is a reasonable proposition to argue that no large plant is likely to run through to its end of expected life without a serious fire. ... [/url]

Imagine the outcry if the power stations were nuclear.


Heh! PDT_Armataz_01_22

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 Post subject: Re: Unsustainable combustion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:54 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 6700
An embarrassment of choice
for when the grow-ups get back in charge.

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