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 Post subject: No surprise then
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:34 pm 
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The Bundestag has overwhelmingly endorsed the second Greek bailout despite growing pressure from voters and the media, while Merkel admits there is no guarantee that it will work. This comes as absolutely no surprise. Despite some predictions to the contrary, it is too early yet to cut Greece adrift. Wait for the fall.

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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:45 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:25 pm
Posts: 1032
Quote:
Europe will fail if the euro fails. Europe wins if it wins the euro


Well Merkel has well and truly nailed her colours to the mast with that statement,though I note there is no mention of the necessity for Greece to be still onboard in there. PDT_Armataz_01_22


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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:45 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:30 pm
Posts: 45
Richard,

Might I suggest the following may be playing a small part in the EU 'hanging on' to Greece?

http://www.hellenesonline.com/go/2012/0 ... nd-the-eu/

Just a thought..................


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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:25 pm 
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Location: portugal/germany
I must say that the result of the Bundestag vote was surprising if not Kafkaesque.
In a sane world they would know that Greek membership of the Euro was the result of creative accounting…in plainspeak, they lied. The lie was then compounded by its acceptance by the Colleagues who knew it to be a lie….thus we have two very guilty parties. If Greek malfeasance is provable and I’m sure it is…should one wish to do so (Fe) then their membership is under false pretences.
Unless I am more incredibly naïve than my friends know me to be, it would follow that Greek Euro-membership is, ipso facto, illegal and, if they are illegally in, then they are legally out. So what’s the problem.
Ah yes but………………………….( insert your very own Colleague fantasy answer)

Witterings: Yikes! Something whereof I was ignorant. Thank you. Do you think your average Bundestagabgeordnete knew that? I have grave doubts.

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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:50 pm
Posts: 906
Last Friday the "Bundestag" members received a document containing over 700 pages on which they had to base their vote.
The document wa very hard to understand and no German politician wants to look stupid.

In essence what we see here is a planned deconstruction of Europe and another step further towards NWO.

Dissidents were put back in line.
http://motls.blogspot.com/2012/02/germa ... ueeze.html

So what's left was the Merkel speech which was based on total hubris.

On top of the accelerating debt crises high fuel prices will give the house of cards with the final push.

Ideology will meet reality rather sooner than later.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/david-ros ... as-gas-gas

Same goes for wind power
http://climaterealists.com/?id=9190

with a minor set back for other "Green Power"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ation.html


In the mean time the UK has run out of money
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... money.html

Time for another war....
http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/201 ... tdown.html


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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:00 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:54 pm
Posts: 115
Merkel, February 2012: ""Europe will fail if the euro fails."

Merkel, April 2010: "If the euro fails, it is not only the currency that fails - Europe fails. The idea of European unity fails."

Promises, promises.

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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:50 pm
Posts: 906
It's Official: S&P Cuts Greece To (Selective) Default From CC
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/its-offic ... default-cc


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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:06 am 
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rhaan wrote:
It's Official: S&P Cuts Greece To (Selective) Default From CC
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/its-offic ... default-cc



Quote:
LookingWithAmazement

Collapse won't come. Euro will be saved again this week, both by the ECB's new LTRO as well as by the Euroministers, who pile up some 750 or even 1000 billion euros in the new ESM. Forget the ritual protests coming out of Germany. Markets will rally. Bye bye crisis. No eurocollapse. Told you so, many times. Boring world we live in.

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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:30 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:30 pm
Posts: 527
I wish I could think of something witty to say here...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/angela-merkel-soaked-with-beer-at-ash-wednesday-meeting.html


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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:06 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:25 pm
Posts: 1032
RAENORTH wrote:
rhaan wrote:
It's Official: S&P Cuts Greece To (Selective) Default From CC
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/its-offic ... default-cc



Quote:
LookingWithAmazement

Collapse won't come. Euro will be saved again this week, both by the ECB's new LTRO as well as by the Euroministers, who pile up some 750 or even 1000 billion euros in the new ESM. Forget the ritual protests coming out of Germany. Markets will rally. Bye bye crisis. No eurocollapse. Told you so, many times. Boring world we live in.


Yip that about sums it all up,they are printing via the back door.Instead of directly bailing out the sovereign debts they just bail out the private banks who then bail out the sovereign debts.....and the ECB maintains its "we are a non printing central bank" halo.
Don't know about boring but it is a funny old world


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 Post subject: No surprise then
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:44 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:32 am
Posts: 824
Location: Tasmania
It was the US sub-prime loans crisis that set off the current downward spiral, beginning in late 2007. That led to the Lehman collapse in September 2008. Then the PIIGS economies in the eurozone began to totter, with Greece in trouble now since Spring 2010. But an even greater Europe-wide crisis could be looming - another a house prices bubble again. This time in the sounder economies of the eurozone, non-euro-using EU Western European member countries, & even Western European countries that are outside the EU. Britain (particularly London), France (particularly Paris), Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, & Finland all have massive house price bubbles. If they pop suddenly, so will quite a few banks. Again!
See:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-pos ... ing-bubble

Watchet


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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 1291
Location: UK
vincent wrote:
Well Merkel has well and truly nailed her colours to the mast with that statement

She nailed her colours to the mast with the 1st bailout, IMO.

Quote:
Wait for the fall

18/2/12, Berlin

Angie, we’ve got a problem with our core voters.
No problem, Hans. I’m just about to bailout Greece and save the euro.
Um, Angie. ‘Greece is saved again, rejoice!’ is bombing in the focus groups.
So what do we do ?
I don’t know, Angie. Throwing money at the PIIGS is really unpopular.
You don’t get paid not to know, Hans, I expect answers. For God’s sake, the Brits hate the EU, but Potato Head doesn’t have problems.
Well, they’ve got Europlasticism.
Europlasticism ? How does that work ?
Well, you spout some plausible BS as to why you can’t say no this time. And deniably promise that you will get tough next time.
But when next time comes ?
You say, ‘No, no. Not this time – Next Time’
Ah, I remember. That cast iron business.......... Well, don’t just stand there, Hans, email Deutsche Welle.


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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Location: portugal/germany
@Watchet:
Quote:
It was the US sub-prime loans crisis that set off the current downward spiral, beginning in late 2007.


Spot on!
A Democrat controlled US Congress putting the arm on mortgage lenders garanteed a financial chaos which is now the norm.
A meltdown may well have happened later for other reasons but 'social engineering' in 2007 made it a certainty. A plague on all their houses PDT_Armataz_01_35

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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1862
WitneyWitter wrote:
Richard,

Might I suggest the following may be playing a small part in the EU 'hanging on' to Greece?

http://www.hellenesonline.com/go/2012/0 ... nd-the-eu/

Just a thought..................

The EC have been looking into hydrates in Europe for a while.

HYDRATECH
HYDRAMED
Also here: Geological Assessment of Gas Hydrates in the Mediterranean Sea

Quote:
The overall intention of HYDRAMED is to build on my existing skills in marine and petroleum geology in order to obtain the experience necessary to propose and manage further projects in geoscience research relevant to climate change.


There are others as well. Whether they are investigating them to lead to energy sources or to use as another stick to beat us with over climate change by claiming if the oceans warmed all the methane would be released, remains to be seen. At the moment they can have it as both.


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 Post subject: Re: No surprise then
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:25 pm
Posts: 1032
Watchet wrote:
It was the US sub-prime loans crisis that set off the current downward spiral, beginning in late 2007. That led to the Lehman collapse in September 2008. Then the PIIGS economies in the eurozone began to totter, with Greece in trouble now since Spring 2010. But an even greater Europe-wide crisis could be looming - another a house prices bubble again. This time in the sounder economies of the eurozone, non-euro-using EU Western European member countries, & even Western European countries that are outside the EU. Britain (particularly London), France (particularly Paris), Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, & Finland all have massive house price bubbles. If they pop suddenly, so will quite a few banks. Again!
See:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-pos ... ing-bubble

Watchet


This is of great concern.The Swedes had their own banking crisis in the 90s brought on by an overinflated property bubble,they brought in more stringent banking regulations then and so largely missed the credit crunch in 2007.It would be foolhardy of them to allow it to happen again.

This is the downside to all that money getting pumped into the money supply,this time it is the central banks that are at fault.The extra money sloshing around from the ECBs LTRO and FED and BoE QE has to find a destination somewhere,property speculation is the usual outlet.Of course there are alot of folk moving their money around causing hotspots.They are investing their money where they think it is safe,money coming in from abroad is difficult to control and causes havoc with the domestic housing markets.Along with the tighter banking capital reserve limits being placed on the banks,house price increases will make it almost impossible for the ordinary person to get a mortgage,and all the knock on effects that has on the economy.


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