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 Post subject: More error than trial
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:05 pm 
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The deal eurozone leaders struck with private holders of Greek government bonds to impose deep cuts to the value of their holdings was "as voluntary as a confession to the Spanish Inquisition", the head of one of Germany’s biggest banks has said.

The comments, via the Financial Times, come from Martin Blessing, chief executive of Commerzbank, on a day that exposed the scale of the damage that Europe's sovereign debt crisis has done to banks' balance sheets.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:18 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:36 pm
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Location: Edinburgh
RAENORTH wrote:
I won't begin to pretend that I know what is going on here,


I'd hazard a guess that after fifty years of expansionary policies; expansion of the money supply, loose credit reckless government spending. We have now entered a period of deflation - credit contraction.

In this environment debt will kill you if you let it get out of control. Case in point Greece.

The underlying problem for Greece is that the borrowed and spent too much, in the last ten years on the sovereign credit of the Federal Republic. Now interest on their debts exceed their ability to pay just at the time the world economy has entered a kondratieff 'winter'. PDT_Armataz_01_23


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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:36 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:21 pm
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Location: Denmark
£700bn or £700million?


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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:01 am 
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Location: Albion
Gerard wrote:
£700bn or £700million?

It's the crap notation that leads to this kind of error.

We ought to extend the SI system to currencies: so "700G£ or 700M£".

My consultancy fee for that advice: 3.1416T£. (I always go for the BIG slice of pie.)

ADDED:
Perhaps as a nod to tradition we could keep it in prefix form: "G£700 or M£700".

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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:08 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:22 pm
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It would appear that the dance is continuing:

'The hit parade of demands on Greece keeps right on marching. The Troika has 38 new demands in addition to 10 pages of prior demands that have not been met.'

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/02/troika-demands-38-new-changes-in-greek.html

The Troika are demanding 75 full scale audits PDT_Armataz_02_28 This from a 17 year non audited EU??

Maybe this Greek should consider stepping up to the plate http://www.badassoftheweek.com/paleokostas.html

Warning! Strong language used.


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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:09 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:31 pm
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Fitou wrote:
It would appear that the dance is continuing:

'The hit parade of demands on Greece keeps right on marching. The Troika has 38 new demands in addition to 10 pages of prior demands that have not been met.'

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/02/troika-demands-38-new-changes-in-greek.html

The Troika are demanding 75 full scale audits PDT_Armataz_02_28 This from a 17 year non audited EU??

Maybe this Greek should consider stepping up to the plate http://www.badassoftheweek.com/paleokostas.html

Warning! Strong language used.

Looks like at least HE understands that "Law Enforcement" does not work for the Mere Citizens, but instead only for their Masters. And HE knows an appropriate solution. How long before the REST of the Mere Citizens also understand?


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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:05 am 
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Gerard wrote:
£700bn or £700million?


shum mishtake shurely

The £700million was a writedown by Commerzbank, the £700bn was just de-leveraging by RBS.


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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:51 am 
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Gerard wrote:
£700bn or £700million?


Billion ... now corrected. Just goes to show it is funny money.

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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:31 am 

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It doesn't matter how or why RBS lost the money, they lost money period, ie: they are no damn good at stealing. Which is all banksters do these days and if they can't even get that right, then they should not pay a Sou in bonus' to anyone. That they still do and try to justify doing so, only shows how far removed from reality they are.

Daily it seems we are reminded what pitchforks, piano wire and lamp posts are for.


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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:34 am 
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FU (Fed Up) wrote:
It doesn't matter how or why RBS lost the money, they lost money period, ie: they are no damn good at stealing. Which is all banksters do these days and if they can't even get that right, then they should not pay a Sou in bonus' to anyone. That they still do and try to justify doing so, only shows how far removed from reality they are.

Daily it seems we are reminded what pitchforks, piano wire and lamp posts are for.



One is daily attracted more and more to the option of using such instruments.

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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:45 am 

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This is the problem they get when they allow one bank like RBS to turnover more than the entire GDP of the UK,The problem is no one country can bail it out when it goes bust.

The Greek debt IS small beer,but it is the contagion it causes,the whole banking system is built on nothing more than confidence,once that is gone you have very little left in reality

I have found Felix Salmon does a good job tidying up some figures.




Quote:
The real negotiations are the ones which are certainly going on behind the scenes, between the troika (the EU, the ECB, and the IMF) and the Greeks. The one thing which Greece needs is for the troika to keep on funding Greece’s deficits. And so it’s the troika — the organizations who are actually providing money, here — which holds all the cards. As in any bankruptcy, if you put up cash, you call the tune.

So the only thing that needs to happen here is for Greece to quietly find out from the troika what kind of bond-restructuring terms would be acceptable to them. Greece then puts those terms into a formal offer, and makes acceptance of that offer effectively compulsory for bondholders. The troika declares a successful bond exchange — because it happened on exactly the terms that they wanted — and continues to lend Greece the money it needs to function as a viable sovereign. Game over, at least for the time being.

Now politically, the EU would very much like to have a bunch of smiling bankers going around saying that they’re happy with the bond exchange, rather than a group of extremely irate creditors who feel railroaded into a dreadful deal. So everybody’s going to try to be as nice to the bankers and Dallara(head of IIF creditors group] as they possibly can be, to try to get as much good PR for the deal as possible. And maybe, at the margin, the banks can extract some concessions in return for their smiles — perhaps the new bonds will be issued under London law rather than Greek law, for instance.

But the big-picture game plan is clear. Greece is going to default, on March 20, and there’s really nothing the banks can do to stop it. If you’re not willing to accept whatever deal Greece comes up with, you probably shouldn’t be holding Greek bonds at all.



http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2 ... game-plan/


And some more figure play.Shuflling the money about so the banks get the benefit and not much left over for anyone else.One gets the feeling this is just another bank bailout to keep the sytem running.


Quote:
The ECB has spent about 38 billion euros on Greek government debt with a face value of about 50 billion euros.........


The vast majority of the funds in the program will be used to finance the bond swap and ensure Greece's banking system remains stable; some 30 billion euros will go to "sweeteners" to get the private sector to sign up to the swap, 23 billion will go to recapitalize Greek banks.

A further 35 billion or so will allow Greece to finance the buying back of the bonds. Next to nothing will go directly to help the Greek economy.




http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/ ... HI20120221


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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:47 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:56 am
Posts: 97
Funny old world aint it. I listened to Lord James of Blackheaths latest appeal for investigation of truly massive fraud centred around Tim Geithner and the US treasury and the New York Fed. $15 trillion? The keyboard must be smoking.

This article while bold, makes some very relevant points:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/21 ... r-exposed/

The vid of the Lords' speech by Lord James is embedded.

The thing is, as Gordon Duff points out, as have various other investigators, the bulk of Bankster operations are "off sheet" so as to avoid taxes and to keep the bailouts rolling in. Consider the way in which banksters are lodging the stolen funds (bailouts) with the ECB. This is an attack: Full frontal and centred upon the people. Consider the reality the Greek people find themselves in. Yesterday we read about "negative wages" and "negative gold": A situation linked directly to the withdrawal of credit by the Central Banks. Meanwhile Off balance sheet dealings increase steeply. We need to recognize that activity has been moved completely away from the balance sheet reality involving Gov, taxation, investment (in the real sense of that word, and working people, into the realm populated exclusively by financial vehicles of ever more rarified design which will never ever overlap and benefit humanity other than the oligarch class. We face war at its most brutal, nobody will escape. Which is why people need to respond in a proper manner as to aid in their own survival. But of course here in Britland we have cast iron Dave; So that's all right then.

The on/off balance sheet con is a simple bait and switch operation at its most basic. Only the mockingbird medias' fantasy news services have managed to keep the general public enthralled in the ongoing Crisis/Con.

Here is Duffs' reality page. Whether one agrees with his assertions or not, it is always an enjoyable read:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/19 ... ty-update/


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 Post subject: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:21 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:32 am
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Location: Tasmania
David McWilliams does an excellent graphics explanation of the Greek crisis using what he calls Punk Economics. He shows how the banks get all the money they need while the citizenry is bled dry. See:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/europes-c ... -citizenry

Watchet


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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:50 pm
Posts: 906
What error? According to Bloomberg we're in a Global economic recovery
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-2 ... dence.html


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 Post subject: Re: More error than trial
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:28 pm 
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rhaan wrote:
What error? According to Bloomberg we're in a Global economic recovery
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-2 ... dence.html


Quote:
“People are focused more on economic news again,” John Carey, who helps oversee about $220 billion at Pioneer Investments in Boston, said in a telephone interview. “There’s still a lot of nervousness in the market about what’s going on in Europe and in the Middle East,” he said. “There are always things to worry about, but on the whole I’m pretty positive.”


They really are in a world of their own.

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