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 Post subject: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:43 pm 
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France's Rafale has emerged as preferred bidder in a $11 billion contest to supply India with 126 fighters, says Reuters. They have undercut the rival Eurofighter and boosted French hopes of a long-awaited first export contract for its premier combat jet.

Clearly, the bribes aid we've given them hasn't worked out. But why on earth are we giving £1.4 billion in aid to a country that can afford to equip its air force to the tune of $15 billion, and isn't even buying British?

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:30 pm 

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A close friend who has done many deals in India will tell you that it is impossible to do a deal unless you give your client a "present". Perhaps BAE, with their track record, daren't risk it.


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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:39 pm 
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madbiker wrote:
A close friend who has done many deals in India will tell you that it is impossible to do a deal unless you give your client a "present". Perhaps BAE, with their track record, daren't risk it.


That could very well be it. It could destroy its American business. The Kermits would have no such restraints.

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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:11 pm 

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Mr Camerons trade mission to India last year really paid off didn't it. PDT_Armataz_01_19


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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:53 pm 
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Flashman wrote:
Mr Camerons trade mission to India last year really paid off didn't it. PDT_Armataz_01_19


Yay!!! I'd forgotten that. Added to the blog ... thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:50 am 

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I wonder if India intends to purchase the carrier version at a later date when/if they get carriers with catapults. French planes off British carriers ... owned by India.


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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:23 am 
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What's all the fuss about?
We do foreign aid far, far better than the Kermits &, if we are not already, we aspire to be World leaders in spending money we do not have. I am so proud.

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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:35 am 

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Flashman wrote:
Mr Camerons trade mission to India last year really paid off didn't it. PDT_Armataz_01_19



Perhaps the Indians paid more attention to the Top Gear trade mission... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAca_e2Qkwg


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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:43 am 
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gareth wrote:
I wonder if India intends to purchase the carrier version at a later date when/if they get carriers with catapults. French planes off British carriers ... owned by India.


Would I be wrong in saying that a shipboard capability comes as standard, or is there a specific, non-enabled version?

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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:20 pm 

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There are 3 versions in use according to wikipedia: B, C and M - B and C are air force, M is navy.


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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:11 pm 
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gareth wrote:
There are 3 versions in use according to wikipedia: B, C and M - B and C are air force, M is navy.


Thanks ... one to watch.

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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:12 pm 

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And the jizzya/voter inducement/development aid to Pakistan is money well spent as well. Doubling to £446 million annually by 2015! :lol:
UK aid to Dubai, sorry the Karzai Afghanistan kleptocracy is also well spent or not. PDT_Armataz_01_33

I bet the Froggies reckon the money they invested in not winning the 2012 Lembit Opik Games for Paris is the best money they ever spent.


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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:41 pm 
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RAENORTH wrote:
gareth wrote:
There are 3 versions in use according to wikipedia: B, C and M - B and C are air force, M is navy.


Thanks ... one to watch.


I understood that effectively all versions of the Rafale are carrier-capable (i.e. structurally strong enough to take deck landings etc) but the air force versions don't need the arrestor hooks and other specific carrier kit.

What will really rub sand into the wound is that the F-35 will be cancelled and we order a handful of Rafales for the FAA. well, if we can buy our Army lorry fleet (and civilain trains) from Germany it's entirely logical we export our aerospace jobs to France to fly aircraft off our flagship carriers.

Er, I mean carrier.


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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:49 pm 
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RAENORTH wrote:
madbiker wrote:
A close friend who has done many deals in India will tell you that it is impossible to do a deal unless you give your client a "present". Perhaps BAE, with their track record, daren't risk it.


That could very well be it. It could destroy its American business. The Kermits would have no such restraints.


Well it's not been helping them in the UAE. Dassault have clearly so annoyed the UAE that they have invited Eurofighter to tender. That said, it's no doubt a ruse to drive the French price down. It's amazing what the loss (or threat of loss) of a contract can do.

Dassault have just miraculously managed to find that they could, in fact, bid lower than Saab for the recent Swiss fighter contract (albeit for 18 aircraft as opposed to 22 Gripens) even though the Swedes were announced as the winners.

All round though a dismal decision. This really looked like it could go Typhoon's way. And there's no indication that Typhoon's lack of carrier capability was a deciding factor.

-- Iain


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 Post subject: Re: Kermits get the cream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
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elchig wrote:
RAENORTH wrote:
gareth wrote:
There are 3 versions in use according to wikipedia: B, C and M - B and C are air force, M is navy.


Thanks ... one to watch.


I understood that effectively all versions of the Rafale are carrier-capable (i.e. structurally strong enough to take deck landings etc) but the air force versions don't need the arrestor hooks and other specific carrier kit.

What will really rub sand into the wound is that the F-35 will be cancelled and we order a handful of Rafales for the FAA. well, if we can buy our Army lorry fleet (and civilain trains) from Germany it's entirely logical we export our aerospace jobs to France to fly aircraft off our flagship carriers.

Er, I mean carrier.

It's the large amounts of composites that do that I think, and the Eurofighter is similar in that respect. The M still had to be strengthened, the undercarriage lengthened, lose the front middle hardpoint to make room for a more substantial nose wheel, etc to put up with regular carrier work.

A problem with the Eurofighter is that the suggested naval version - to try and sell to India - is for STOBAR operations not CATOBAR. If they wanted to bodge a bigger front wheel to cope with catapults I'm not sure whether it is easier or harder with the wheel not being in the nose to start with.

EDIT: I don't think the Indian purchase will be the M but just the bog standard air force ones. They currently don't have catapult carriers but are talking about it.


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