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 Post subject: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Despite the hubris (or because of it?), The Boy is facing a gathering of the clans over his U-turn. "Right wing Tory MPs", we are told, "were due to meet in Westminster to plot how to make clear their unhappiness ahead of a statement by Mr Cameron in the Commons tomorrow".

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:22 pm 

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There is one benefit though, it gives the impression with the electorate that The Boy doesn't have a backbone. So reinforcing the 'cast iron' reputation. Cameron's 'veto ' poll bounce is about to take a downward trajectory

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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:59 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:17 pm
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I wonder how many Tory MPs (including Cameron) actually understand anything much about the EU. I assume that Hague and a few others have a very clear understanding and are deliberately deceitful.

In general, they give the impression of being like women in an abusive relationship. It doesn't matter how badly beaten they are or how much they are betrayed, they have a grumble and then go back for another dose


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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:06 pm
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comet wrote:
I wonder how many Tory MPs (including Cameron) actually understand anything much about the EU. I assume that Hague and a few others have a very clear understanding and are deliberately deceitful.

In general, they give the impression of being like women in an abusive relationship. It doesn't matter how badly beaten they are or how much they are betrayed, they have a grumble and then go back for another dose


The difference is that it is we, the hoi polloi, who get beaten up, time after time!


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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:25 pm
Posts: 1032
From the linked DM piece.

Quote:
Tory MPs last night accused Mr Cameron of backtracking in order to ‘appease’ his Liberal Democrat deputy Nick Clegg, who was infuriated by his tough stance last month.




No doubt Clegg was infuriated but that is irrelevant,Cameron would have appeased anyhow,he had no intention of being obstuctive long term,he had his fleeting moment and now it has gone,...and is in fact starting to implode on him spectacularly.

It seems Tory denial extends to the leader of the MEPs too


Quote:
Martin Callanan said: ‘There is no doubt that the Government’s position has altered since the December summit.

‘I blame a combination of appeasing Nick Clegg, who is desperate to sign anything the EU puts in front of him, and the reality that this pact is actually quite hard to prevent.’




There is that irrelevant "appeasement" bit again,but the second bit is interesting.He uses the word "pact" not Treaty and more or less says that they cannot stop it anyway...some veto that was then,and his esteemed iron leader has turned into a lump of jelly at the first whiff of grapeshot.


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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:52 pm
Posts: 56
A good war would be a useful distraction for Dave.

Wooder if the Argies could oblige again?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... lands.html


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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:25 pm
Posts: 1032
Just heard the punch and judy show in the Commons between Milliband and Cameron,Cameron claiming he vetoed the fiscal Treaty and Milliband pointing out that Cameron had done a U turn on allowing the use the EU institutions on his non extistant veto and that what was coming now was a Treaty, Cameron merely countering with a question...would Milliband have signed the Treaty?....Or is that a non Treaty,I am getting confused now PDT_Armataz_01_22.

Anyone outside the loop would not have made sense of any of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:03 pm
Posts: 437
Flashman said:
Quote:
A good war would be a useful distraction for Dave.
Oh dear me no! He's of the generation brought up to despise the bravery and patriotism behind the Charge of the Light Brigade-though his own campaigns are not even that well planned!

No. Jelly-Bean Dave's French is surely no better than mine; he'd appease the Argies and do another u-turn... translating
Quote:
Après moi la révolte?
as "After me, Revolting Eggs."


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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:56 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Cumbria
To blame "the Boy" or even the Infant Miliband for our EU woes, is to ignore the elephant in Whitehall.
Cameron has been skilfully manipulated by the civil service mandarins in Whitehall, who are the real ogres behind this debacle.It might be argued that Blair managed to manipulate these mandarins to promote his own aims (which, evil though they were, were not very different from theirs), but in Cameron they found their perfect puppet.

The Sir Humphreys of the FCO, apart from being, almost without exception, totally committed to the European Project, are, in their own opinion, never wrong. They may, on the surface, appear to be urbane and intelligent, but they are also ruthless, autocratic and deeply contemptuous of the hoi polloi, or indeed anyone who has the temerity to question their wisdom. Moreover, unlike politicians, where Ministers come and go and the price of failure is often dismissal, the unelected mandarins are virtually unsackable and the price of failure is often promotion.

Great, therefore, must have been the relief in Whitehall when instead of Blair, who was as intelligent, ruthless, conceited and self confident as themselves, or Brown, who was already bent upon self destruction, along came Cameron. Here was a young inexperienced politician, promoted well beyond his ability, driven by an overwheening ego and ambition, but also desperate to be popular. The days of "Yes Prime Minister" had arrived.


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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:24 pm
Posts: 37
"It's outside EU law because I made it outside EU law."

*sigh*

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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:03 pm 
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Flashman wrote:
A good war would be a useful distraction for Dave.

Wooder if the Argies could oblige again?

My money was on an invasion of Iran, but maybe we'll get both for a Brucie bonus.


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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:17 pm
Posts: 1384
David Parker wrote:
To blame "the Boy" or even the Infant Miliband for our EU woes, is to ignore the elephant in Whitehall.
Cameron has been skilfully manipulated by the civil service mandarins in Whitehall, who are the real ogres behind this debacle.It might be argued that Blair managed to manipulate these mandarins to promote his own aims (which, evil though they were, were not very different from theirs), but in Cameron they found their perfect puppet.



Douglas Carswell has been arguing something along these lines on his website.

I've no doubt that a significant factor dragging us further into the EU has always been the Civil Service.

However, Conservative policy on the EU (prattling about reform but ruling out leaving) has always been either naive or dishonest. It looks to me like full commitment but having to make fraudulent gestures to keep a large proportion of their supporters on board, basically stringing them along with a pack of lies. Look at their behaviour this parliament,

As for Cameron, I don't get the impression his actions in dealing with any of this are referenced to a set of principles, just soundbites and gestures and whatever is needed to muddle through without rocking the boat, and that pretty much goes for the Parliamentary Conservative Party as a whole. Cameron either doesn't know what he's doing and really hasn't thought about any of this (they had 13 years in opposition to think about it) or he's a shyster.

It won't do to blame all this on Civil Servants.


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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:52 pm 
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comet wrote:

It won't do to blame all this on Civil Servants.


Agreed ... when the chips are down, the Serpents do as they are told.

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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:03 pm
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Its got to be at least 50/50 or even higher that the mandarins are to blame .


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 Post subject: Re: Après moi la révolte?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Robin wrote:
Its got to be at least 50/50 or even higher that the mandarins are to blame .


Why blame the Serpents when you can blame the masters?

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