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 Post subject: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:00 am 
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The past reaches out, to bring back unwelcome memories, this time the fate of Acting Corporal Marcin Wojtak, who died on 1 October 2009 when his Pinzgauer Vector drove over a 40lb IED close to Camp Bastion, in Afghanistan.

An earlier report tells us that the Vector had been part of a three-vehicle convoy which had just left a wadi and moved onto higher ground, when it was blown up by the device, comprising "20-25 kilograms of home-made explosives buried about 40cm under the ground".

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:36 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:04 am
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Location: Cheshire
It's even more appalling that that self-important pizzle Dannatt is still treated as he's he's some sort of military guru, whereas he was actually a very successful military bureaucrat who was more than happy to send men out to die in mobile coffins for the sake of his delusional FRES fantasy. He deserves horse whipping, not the fawning adulation of the MSM.


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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:38 am 
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JohnFSK wrote:
It's even more appalling that that self-important pizzle Dannatt is still treated as he's he's some sort of military guru, whereas he was actually a very successful military bureaucrat who was more than happy to send men out to die in mobile coffins for the sake of his delusional FRES fantasy. He deserves horse whipping, not the fawning adulation of the MSM.


Nice summary. I could not disagree with that.

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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:47 am 
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The MSM are greased lightning. How long has it taken them?

Never mind your book, which is relatively recent (2009?), you have been highlighting PRECISELY this problem with the Pinzgauer for at least the the last 5 years and more on this blog.

If the call is going out to spank Captain Francesco Schettino for dereliction of duty, why is no one calling for Dannatt & chums' heads on this one? I'm sure Schettino didn't plan the unfortunate outcome with his charge. Can similar really be said about Dannatt & co?

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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:48 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:50 pm
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This affair is nothing less but a tragedy and a nightmare for victims and their families.
If they have any chance they should sue the hell out of the Department of Defense and those responsible for this mess.
I'm very grateful for people like you who have the expertise and the energy to get to the bottom of scandals like this and bring them into the open.


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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:21 am 

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rhaan wrote:
This affair is nothing less but a tragedy and a nightmare for victims and their families.
If they have any chance they should sue the hell out of the Department of Defense and those responsible for this mess.
I'm very grateful for people like you who have the expertise and the energy to get to the bottom of scandals like this and bring them into the open.


Seconded...

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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:24 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:25 pm
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Glad you followed this story up.Its an issue well worth publicising(again).For these fellas who gave up their lives or are now living a terribly afflicted existance from their injuiries should never be forgotten.

Lets hope someone, somewhere will have learnt a lesson.


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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:40 am 
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EdCase wrote:
The MSM are greased lightning. How long has it taken them?

Never mind your book, which is relatively recent (2009?), you have been highlighting PRECISELY this problem with the Pinzgauer for at least the the last 5 years and more on this blog.

If the call is going out to spank Captain Francesco Schettino for dereliction of duty, why is no one calling for Dannatt & chums' heads on this one? I'm sure Schettino didn't plan the unfortunate outcome with his charge. Can similar really be said about Dannatt & co?


The nearest we got was this ...

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... -made.html

Insofar as parliament mattered, the essential problems were an inadequate opposition, exploiting the military situations in Iraq and Afghanistan for their own benefit, and a wholly dysfunctional select committee system. The problems were (partly) summed up here:

http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2 ... onour.html
http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2 ... broad.html
http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2 ... -bark.html

Add to that (with certain honourable exceptions) a useless media and poseurs like Dannatt were able to get away with it, enjoying the prestige of office and all that went with it. If you wanted a single testament to the inadequacy of the system as a whole, it would by the Pinzgauer Vector - perhaps we should have a model of it on the empty plinth in Trafalgar Square, for Nelson to look down upon - what we were and what we have now become.

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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:21 am 

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Why does it look though it should have "Ages 3 - 7" on the box??

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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:11 am 
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Richard,

The dates on those links don't do you justice - you've been on the case of V-shaped hulls for years and years, way before 2009, maybe 2005. Earlier wouldn't surprise me either.

I have no military knowledge beyond that of the ordinary civvy but the V-shaped hull was a glaringly obvious requirement in the face of IEDs once you pointed it out, even to us. I recall your mention of them by the Rhodesians when they had a similar problem way back when, and that we even had some at one time and bloody well sold them all off years ago. RG31s or something like that but I think they had some kind of nickname.

The point is that there's just no way Dannatt & co didn't realise the consequences of their game playing in pursuit of dreams on battlefields elsewhere, possibly never to materialise, and the FRES toys to play on them with. IEDs V-shaped Hulls, IEDs V-shaped Hulls, IEDs V-shaped Hulls, IEDs V-shaped Hulls.... Not difficult to remember, is it.

IIRC the Pinzgauer was really intended as some kind of mobile command post for junior officers in which to dash around the place. But dangerous bling for squaddies in afghanistan (and iraq, but that was the Landrover wotsit - similar type of problem though).

There's just no excusing any of this.

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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:09 pm
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I'm almost certain that the South African and Rhodesian armies had armoured personnel carriers, with v-shaped undersides, in the 1980s, when they were fighting their terrorist enemies. And I recall reading several reports in the South African newspapers at the time, which described how the occupants had survived planted explosives.


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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:35 pm 
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john in cheshire wrote:
I'm almost certain that the South African and Rhodesian armies had armoured personnel carriers, with v-shaped undersides, in the 1980s, when they were fighting their terrorist enemies. And I recall reading several reports in the South African newspapers at the time, which described how the occupants had survived planted explosives.


The technology was British inspired in the mid-sixties ... and exported to Rhodesia in the early 1970s, subsequently adopted by the South Africans, then the Americans (with British design assistance), whence in 2006 we bought mine protected vehicles from the United States ... forty years after we had pioneered the concept.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/0 ... efore.html
http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2 ... rs-on.html
http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2 ... poken.html
http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2 ... e-war.html
http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2 ... itics.html
http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2 ... wards.html
http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2 ... arned.html

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 Post subject: Re: A bitter taste
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:06 pm
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"There can be few other instances where a replacement vehicle was deemed so unsatisfactory that it was eventually replaced by the vehicle it was intended to replace ..."

I can't think of a single example from the British armed forces. I wonder if perhaps some of the WW2 navy aircraft might qualify. Any suggestions from anyone?


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