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EU Referendum & Friends • View topic - Words have meanings
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 Post subject: Words have meanings
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:32 pm 
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A masterful exposition on the word "veto" and The Boy's relationship with it from Your Freedom and Ours. There cannot, as Booker said last Sunday, be many occasions where a political event has been so widely and completely misrepresented, a process which continues to this day. And, as the myth continues its stately progress, we will have to continue pointing out that the emperor ain't got no clothes.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Words have meanings
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:16 pm 

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A minor exchange had on Con-home

Quote:
bones
Look, can someone at 'conservative home' explain to me what this 'Treaty' was?.Please.



Denis Cooper

Probably not, because I don't think the exact details of the treaty changes which were actually being proposed have been revealed.

But that doesn't mean that there were no proposals for treaty change, because clearly there were, and that Cameron didn't reject them, because clearly he did.


bones
Thank you but the narrative seems to be saying 'treaty' yet here you suggest 'proposals' for a treaty.....

Which is it in these terms?



Denis Cooper
Proposals for treaty change, of course.

I can't see why some people are making such heavy weather of this.



Well, as a starter I would like to suggest because the majority of our 'parliamentarians' are lawyers and when framing 'law' an entire meaning can be altered by a comma......and the narrative of this issue seems clearly framed to me.

I would suppose it would depend on what the meaning of 'is' is.....if one gets the drift....and doesn't either inhale or impale....

Happy Christmas by the way....

Are you having pork for Christmas dinner?

As a P.S. I would like to add that Mr Cooper seems a decent enough sort. (In case this was seen as a personal attack).


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 Post subject: Re: Words have meanings
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:23 pm 
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thejones wrote:

Are you having pork for Christmas dinner?



Have a heart!


As for Dennis Cooper, he is something of a contrarian when it comes to EU Ref. His indifference to the correct use of the word veto is perverse, but his stance is very much in the Cooper style.

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 Post subject: Re: Words have meanings
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:27 am 

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It's impossible to argue the point with most people, given they've absorbed the meme and decided it's truth; they can't be argued out of it no matter what you say, an experience I have with family all too often.

Mention that the EU started as a customs union and you get "it's the same as a free trade zone". Doesn't matter that there was no treaty, Cameron vetoed it anyway, and it not the treaty, the the idea of a treaty was vetoed, except that the idea of a treaty was never really considered, so he vetoed... something, and that's what matters.

But what should I expect from people who declare that accuracy and precision are "basically the same"?

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 Post subject: Re: Words have meanings
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:33 am 
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archonix wrote:
It's impossible to argue the point with most people, given they've absorbed the meme and decided it's truth; they can't be argued out of it no matter what you say, an experience I have with family all too often.

Mention that the EU started as a customs union and you get "it's the same as a free trade zone". Doesn't matter that there was no treaty, Cameron vetoed it anyway, and it not the treaty, the the idea of a treaty was vetoed, except that the idea of a treaty was never really considered, so he vetoed... something, and that's what matters.


That's basically the argument we're getting from Cooper ... this is a belief system at work. Even before the election, there was a section of the Tory groupescule which desperately wanted Cameron to be a eurosceptic ... this is wish fulfilment, and they are not to be dissuaded that their dream has come true.

archonix wrote:
But what should I expect from people who declare that accuracy and precision are "basically the same"?


So if you tell them they are precisely wrong, and their heads explode?

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 Post subject: Re: Words have meanings
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:11 am 

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DT's debt crisis page yesterday.An online poll on the EU......


Quote:

What was your defining moment of the eurozone debt crisis in the past 100 days?

David Cameron's EU treaty veto

EU agreement on fiscal union

S&P downgrades the US

Greece's euro referendum threat

The rise of 'Merkozy'

UK growth forecasts cut

ECB offers banks cheap credit

Co-ordinated central bank action

VoteView ResultsShare This



Needless to say

Option 1 won with 51.45% of the votes


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 Post subject: Re: Words have meanings
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:15 am 
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vincent wrote:
DT's debt crisis page yesterday.An online poll on the EU......


Quote:

What was your defining moment of the eurozone debt crisis in the past 100 days?

David Cameron's EU treaty veto

EU agreement on fiscal union

S&P downgrades the US

Greece's euro referendum threat

The rise of 'Merkozy'

UK growth forecasts cut

ECB offers banks cheap credit

Co-ordinated central bank action

VoteView ResultsShare This



Needless to say

Option 1 won with 51.45% of the votes


Does that mean 51.45 percent of DT readers are idiots? At least that is a lower percentage than one finds of the journalists. Perhaps one should say only 51.45 percent of readers are idiots, compared with 100 (give or take) percent of the writers?

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 Post subject: Re: Words have meanings
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:31 am 

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Quote:
Does that mean 51.45 percent of DT readers are idiots? At least that is a lower percentage than one finds of the journalists. Perhaps one should say only 51.45 percent of readers are idiots, compared with 100 (give or take) percent of the writers


Yes, good point.To be fair, the readers the were given a red herring of an option,by people who should really know better.They could have reworded that option (to resemble the actual reality) and I am sure had the done so not as many would have gone for it...which is why the Tories are sticking to their myth.


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 Post subject: Re: Words have meanings
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:54 am 

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Let us consider the meaning of "Sovereign".
For the Queen to be truly Sovereign in this Realm no foreign Powers or Potentates may have Authority or Jurisdiction in this Realm. To claim otherwise is Constitutionally illegal and technically treason.
This is the most fundamental lie of UK membership of the EU.

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 Post subject: Re: Words have meanings
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:01 am 
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vincent wrote:
Quote:
Does that mean 51.45 percent of DT readers are idiots? At least that is a lower percentage than one finds of the journalists. Perhaps one should say only 51.45 percent of readers are idiots, compared with 100 (give or take) percent of the writers


Yes, good point.To be fair, the readers the were given a red herring of an option,by people who should really know better.They could have reworded that option (to resemble the actual reality) and I am sure had the done so not as many would have gone for it...which is why the Tories are sticking to their myth.



Well, I suppose a myth is as good as a kilometre.

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