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 Post subject: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:50 pm 
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At the heart of the EU's attempts to reduce industrial carbon dioxide emissions is its Emission Trading Scheme. And lest we forget, the idea was gradually to increase the cost to industry of emitting CO2 to atmosphere, thereby to incentivise investment in emission reduction equipment and procedures.

In theory, the price of the EU permits was supposed to increase, providing a ratchet effect, forcing a gradual reduction of emissions in line with the piece increase.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:56 pm 
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Quote:
One would love to see her idea of success.


Or to know what she would consider a failure.

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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:57 pm 
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John Page wrote:
Quote:
One would love to see her idea of success.


Or to know what she would consider a failure.


Better put ... I'll change the piece.

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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:18 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:21 pm
Posts: 1854
Richard,

Help is at hand. SR radio news reported this morning that the closure of eight German nuclear power stations is expected to push up the price of carbon dioxide indulgencies by roughly £4.50 per metric tons of CO2. That's good news, isn't it.
.....
But the German economic growth is supposed to save the euro. Hm, something does not quite compute. Well, I guess they have a solution for that as well. Or maybe not.... PDT_Armataz_01_33


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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1862
I wonder if they have resolved the fraud problems.

2013 will see the beginning of a new phase in the ETS. Until 2012 each member nation is working to their own national allocation plan. After that it is a 7 year plan set by the EU centrally. That will perhaps make it more attractive to fraud and maintain the pressure on the EU organisation to cover up the consequences of it. In the case in Richard's previous article linked to above the theft of emissions permits and resale of them resulted in Brussels insisting that the owners who had their permits stolen cannot be told who now owns them.(And presumably retained ownership of those stolen goods)


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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:14 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:44 am
Posts: 220
mikgen wrote:
Richard,

Help is at hand. SR radio news reported this morning that the closure of eight German nuclear power stations is expected to push up the price of carbon dioxide indulgencies by roughly £4.50 per metric tons of CO2. That's good news, isn't it.
.....
But the German economic growth is supposed to save the euro. Hm, something does not quite compute. Well, I guess they have a solution for that as well. Or maybe not.... PDT_Armataz_01_33


Even more amusingly the French Socialists and Greens have got together and made a pact about nuclear energy to ensure the election of Francios Hollande as President next year.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 82158.html

WSJ article wrote:
PARIS—France's opposition Green and Socialist parties sealed an electoral alliance over the weekend, saying they would reduce the country's longstanding reliance on nuclear energy if they have an opportunity to form a coalition government after the spring 2012 presidential election.

The alliance came after weeks of tumultuous negotiations because Eva Joly, the Green party's presidential candidate, and François Hollande, who won the Socialist Party nomination last month and leads in opinion polls, have diverging views on the issue.

Ms. Joly and the Greens are lobbying for quickly phasing out what they regard as a "dangerous" industry. The Socialist Party, which strongly supported France's shift to nuclear from fossil fuels in the 1970s, is now more nuanced on the merits of atomic power. Mr. Hollande has proposed a reduction of nuclear's share in France's energy mix to 50% from 75%.


What might this mean in practise:-

WSJ article wrote:
Under the weekend pact, which was endorsed by the Greens on Saturday, France would reduce its reliance on nuclear through the gradual shutdown of 24 reactors, starting with the immediate closing of the country's oldest ones in Fessenheim, near the border with antinuclear Germany.

French power company Electricité de France SA, which runs the country's 58 reactors, says closing half of them would result in 300,000 job losses, according to a spokeswoman for the company. French think tank Institut Montaigne said the Green-Socialist plan to close 24 reactors would cost €120 billion ($162 billion).

Yet, the Socialist Party candidate, Mr. Hollande, said the country was too reliant on a single energy source and should do more to bulk up its renewable-energy industry.

With economic growth stagnating, France's triple-A debt rating under close scrutiny, and consumer purchasing power weakening, some analysts say that even if Mr. Hollande won next year's election, reducing France's dependence on nuclear could prove too costly to immediately implement.


Interesting. How many European countries rely on French nuclear power to cover peak demand. If there is no spare capacity in France we could be looking at brownouts across Europe, say when a high pressure zone settles over the continent in the middle of winter. My impression is that even the closure of one plant permanently might be enough to tip the balance. These people don't want an economy do they?


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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:57 pm 

Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 2:21 pm
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But UBS has just produced a report showing that green policies have cost $287 Billion and has produced "almost zero impact" on cutting carbon emissions, and has warned that the EU's carbon pricing market is on the verge of a crash next year.
In a damning report to clients, UBS Investment Research said that had the $210bn the European ETS had cost consumers been used in a targeted approach to replace the EU's dirtiest power plants, emissions could have been reduced by 43 per cent "instead of almost zero impact on the back of emissions trading".
.
Via Benny

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 6203068972


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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
Posts: 4434
I guess that France will have to learn the hard way......effing morons.


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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:17 pm
Posts: 1384
It doesn't help that the scheme is riddled with massive frauds.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenh ... t-5bn.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines ... 5842148852

and the certificates have been forged.

Another big top-down scheme, completely inflexible and with all sorts of unintended consequences. Also it's a market created by governments, in things no one would want unless they were forced to. Ultimately we pay for this as it puts up the price of everything and drives jobs to places where the foolishness is seen for what it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:26 pm 
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comet wrote:
It doesn't help that the scheme is riddled with massive frauds.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenh ... t-5bn.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines ... 5842148852

and the certificates have been forged.

Another big top-down scheme, completely inflexible and with all sorts of unintended consequences. Also it's a market created by governments, in things no one would want unless they were forced to. Ultimately we pay for this as it puts up the price of everything and drives jobs to places where the foolishness is seen for what it is.


What us not said enough, perhaps, is that this is the sort of thing from which parliament should protect us. It thus represents a major failing of parliament.

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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:43 pm 
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Quote:


These people don't want an economy do they?


You are 100% correct - they don't.

I have been following the 'global warming' madness since the late 80's when I read an article pointing out that the majority of scientists predicting future warming were those same scientists who in the 70's had been predicting global cooling and that 90% of greenhouse gases came from termites.

I know all the fallacies, a subset of which are humorously illustrated here http://wattsupwiththat.com/climate-fail-files/the-gore-a-thon-on-wuwt/

However, I only came across the idea of 'CONTRACTION & CONVERGENCE' recently (maybe I've been missing something) and the fact that this is fundamental to the notion of the UK reducing its CO2 emmissions by 80% by 2050 and is encapsulated within the Climate Change Act.

The details behind this are here http://gci.org.uk/ and should be required reading if you want to understand that ruining our economy to deliver 'sustainable consumption' is the whole point not an unfortunate by-product of their policies.

or particularly here as it relates to the Climate Change Act http://gci.org.uk/climateact.html

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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
Posts: 1441
Easily the most unfathomable and daftest single piece of fkcuwittedness, of all of the madness associated with EU 'policy' [UN inspired Kyoto protocol]. In its [EU] manic adherence, to the fiction of man made global warming, is carbon emissions trading, if anything was so designed to diminish and even end European industrial competitiveness - this was it [do these commissars/twats ever think anything through?].

The trouble is, even as the EU-ETS is disappearing up its own fundament [at long last].

Along comes our very own monster raving loony, our minister for energy [DE+CC] wants Britain to go it alone, a unilateral carbon pricing scheme initiated in the near future [1-2 years] and if this isn't government 'inspired' deliberate industrial suicide, then what is?

And behind Huhne, stands the Green Tosser, a stalwart and unbending ally - time to have a break.................... PDT_Armataz_01_19


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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:58 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:17 pm
Posts: 1384
RAENORTH wrote:

What us not said enough, perhaps, is that this is the sort of thing from which parliament should protect us. It thus represents a major failing of parliament.


For that to happen there has to be a debate in parliament with distinctly different points of view argued. When the debate consists of the government proposing something barmy with blandishments about green jobs and so on, and the opposition parties' argument is that the government's proposals are not nutty enough, this is hardly a debate. The act was passed with about 6 dissenters. All the more serious when it involves taking ruinous unilateral action which really can't solve the problem it's supposed to solve anyway.

It's pretty clear that the whole of the political establishment was behind this, the TUC, the CBI and all the usual suspects and had collectively disappeared on a brain holiday.

It strikes me that Westminster and the rest still haven't gotten over the loss of empire and are motivated by anything which can be presented as "Britain leading the way"; "leading the way on climate change", "leading the way in Europe" or "Britain becoming and aid superpower". Shame they can't lead the way on anything sensible which they could mainly do by getting out of the way.

It's like watching a five year old kid being put in charge of a household budget. Most of the money spent on toys and sweeties, the food budget is for chips and beefburgers. Shame about the gas bill.


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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:23 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:52 pm
Posts: 542
1. Two years and two months ago we were being really creamed on global warming/climate change.
Public not with us. MSM and Westminster Bubble thought us nutters.
We were two laps behind in a four lap race.
It is extraordinary how we have got on terms, been vindicated, become respectable mainstream opinion.

2. Dr North used to be 3 years ahead of the msm on key matters. Now he is only 18 month to 2 years ahead. This is healthy stuff indeed. The trend is most welcome. When he is merely a few days ahead, we will be winning. It is a hopeful sign.

3. The other good news is The Guardian is losing £100 k a day. It can not last at this rate. More effort to see it off is needed by bloggers. A Guardian free UK would be freedom indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Collapse of a policy
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:22 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
Posts: 1441
Quote:
A Guardian free UK would be freedom indeed.


Britain free of the EU organ of propaganda, aka the beeb would be even better.


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