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 Post subject: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:15 am 
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Britain was facing a new multi-billion-pound bill to prop up the euro last night as the single currency teetered on the brink of collapse, says The Daily Mail. It is not the end. It is not the beginning of the end. But it may well be the end of the beginning. There is no way back.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:48 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:52 pm
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It is fascinating Cameron wants to be THERE for prestige..at least the photocall with Sarko and Angie M.
He does not want to distance himself from a sinking ship perhaps because he does not think it can sink.
But many others are noticing Cameron is a losing power and prestige and not just the usual suspects.

When certain types put their wet finger in the air to check which way the wind of POWER is going, and they sense it has changed course so they must change course, then we know what is going on.
Interesting weather barometer people are backing away from Cameron.

Who wrote this ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -rebellion

"Cameron has been very careless with party management".

"Unfortunately Cameron has, in the words of one well-placed observer, a work ethic that is the very opposite of Margaret Thatcher's. At the sort of time she was burning the late-night oil, composing handwritten notes to backbench MPs and party workers, he will be enjoying the latest DVD boxset."

"We are only 18 months into the parliament but problems that normally characterise senile governments are already evident."

"When Downing Street called me last week and asked for my advice on how to handle the EU vote issue, I suggested they take a step back".

"Downing Street has been repeatedly warned of discontent. Those warnings were ignored, ......... it's only going to get worse".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -rebellion

A few months ago this writer believed Cameron was the great leader...but I think he has one thing spot on...Cameron has no great appetite for 24-7 work ethic, he is not looking to go on and on as PM in the style of Maggie, Blair, or even Major. He had plenty of money before politics and does not need to make any more for a pleasant life. He just needs to knock off a few social prestige targets. Eton, Balliol, MP, PM, HoL, few top directorships, more time for holidays with the children and Top Drawer 'Party on The Yacht' circuit and genteel well heeled early retirement.

He is as we all now know a committed EU man. But the rougher it gets in Brussells, the swifter he will choose to leave the stage.
Nick Clegg is the most honest man in UK politics. He has always made clear his loyalty to the EU at any cost. He believes. It is his flag. He will not betray it. The crash of the euro can not put off such blind faith and loyal zeal.


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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:10 am 
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The big beneficiary in all this are going to be UKIP. The Tories have given UKIP the right to call themselves the only EUsceptic party in a country. I only wonder if any MPs are thinking of leaving the Tories for UKIP, the grassroots and some newspapers would back them

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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:43 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:52 pm
Posts: 542
UKIP is alas why we will not leave the EU.
If it did not exist, The Tories might split as Labour and SDP split.
But the vacuum is filled by a dysfunctional small bunch who are in it for publicity, significant EU expenses,
and have no interest in building local party base and contesting local elections...which gives you General Election credibility.
The 79 Conservative rebels will not split and join UKIP under the present leadership and indeed last leader (who campaigned against UKIP candidates in 2010).
The third biggest party in the UK is not the LibDems party membership but ex-UKIP party members.
They join, see what is there, they quickly leave while still seeking an Independent UK.
When it can not retain Dr North, Szamuely, very many other credible people and not even keep Nikki Sinclaire as members....this Farage plaything is the obstacle not the solution!! PDT_Armataz_01_10
Peter Hitchins will not touch UKIP...says it all.
Kilroy Silk would have made them credible with the TV voters and made them professional (and he had been an MP) but the manner of his departure put off all MPs even considering defecting to them. He saw who they really were, what they really believed, that leaving The EU was not top of their priority list.
UK Independence is a noble political goal. The problem with 'UKIP' is not the 'UKI' but rather the 'Party'.


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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:52 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:39 pm
Posts: 129
Quote:
[UKIP]...have no interest in building local party base and contesting local elections...


We are having a local council by-election tomorrow (Wyre). I guess I must be hallucinating because for some weird reason I can see a UKIP candidate on the list. Interesting...

Quote:
Kilroy Silk would have made them credible with the TV voters and made them professional (and he had been an MP) but the manner of his departure put off all MPs even considering defecting to them. He saw who they really were, what they really believed, that leaving The EU was not top of their priority list.


Kilroy Silk, takling to the Times, 29th April, 1975: ...the function of government, particularly a Labour government, was "to impose its values on society. Its role is creative: to cast, so far as it is able, society in its image". Furthermore, socialists should not be worried about being accused of dictatorial powers; they must go forward with "a tint of arrogance.

Says it all really. After a spat with Jeremy Corbyn, Kilroy threw his dummy out of the Labour pram and resigned.

He became a TV celeb. A natural home for him I would have thought. Until UKIP beckoned and the spectre of his political leadership ambition came back to haunt everyone.

No sooner was Kilroy recruited into UKIP and voted in as an East Midlands MEP, he tried to impose his "values" upon the fledgling party and made a bid for the leadership. He lost rather badly. So he did what any grown up would do. He stamped his feet, scweamed and scweamed and then accused UKIP (rightly or wrongly - they did recruit him after all) of being incompetent but only after he scraped a paltry 13% of the vote in a leadership battle. Not so much "tint of arrogance", more like a deeply saturated hue. So there was an even bigger public diddums moment which resulted in the creation of...

Veritas. It was launched in January, 2005.

At last! Kilroy had achieved his overweening ambition to be a party leader. Alas, he proved so popular with the electorate he almost lost his deposit when contesting the Erewash constituency in the 2005 GE - all the time retaining his position as a now independent MEP, as did Farage when he was contesting Buckingham. The EU moolah would have come in very handy too, no doubt.

Seems like Veritas' deputy leader had second thoughts and challenged Kilroy for the leadership on 12th July, 2005. By 29th July Kilroy was - you guessed it - gone. Even his own party couldn't stand him. He wasn't re-elected as an MEP.

These days it's Veritas who? UKIP, on the other hand, is going from strength to strength and seems to be getting its act together at last by contesting on a local level. I figure they don't need Kilroy and his ego after all...

As for the rebelling Conservative MPs. Okay, they defied iDave's three line whip for which I applaud them. However, I don't see them resigning from their party on a matter of principle and bringing down the whole rotten shebang. I guess holding public office has too many comforts to sacrifice.


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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:27 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 333
Jonathan wrote:
UKIP is alas why we will not leave the EU.
If it did not exist, The Tories might split as Labour and SDP split.
But the vacuum is filled by a dysfunctional small bunch who are in it for publicity, significant EU expenses,
and have no interest in building local party base and contesting local elections...which gives you General Election credibility.
.


I am a new member of UKIP having defected from the Tories. Certainly at my local level we have 2 local candidates already and I have been asked to be a 3rd. It has been recognised that one of the problems with UKIP has been the neglect of local elections. I sense that there is now a recognition that local elections are very important, just as important as GE or European elections. We have been out leafleting door to door and in the town centre and the response has been positive. I am quite independent minded really and will speak my mind so not afraid to put my tuppence in. One thing I have mentioned is that as far as the main non-political population is concerned, Farage is UKIP and said that this has to change. I dont consider myself dysfunctional and as far as I am aware the people in the local party are not either. It is a pity that there has been a lot of discord at the top in the past as Richard North has contested. I hope that the UKIP will contest local elections all over the country to show that the party are serious.


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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:43 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
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Quote:
I hope that the UKIP will contest local elections all over the country to show that the party are serious.

I strongly suggest your local candidates start blogs, since every comment is a door knocked, and follow up the Good Dr.'s line against council illegalities.
It gives a natural subject on the doorstep and the blogs enable a flock to grow. If UKIP councillors got known as waste-hounds then it would increase turn-out at local elections.

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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:50 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
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The trouble is, everybody knows and can see the big elephant in the room but nobody will admit to its presence.
The euro is dead, it was a zombie when it first 'walked'.
The southern European states will never achieve parity with their northern [Holland, Germany] 'cousins'.
Too much bad debt has piled up.

Thus, at some point there will have to be a equalization [euphemism for gnashing of teeth/ and or - 'market readjustment'] and it won't be pretty.

Ever the pragmatist Raedwald [and it must be recorded many others] say; "it's time to bite the bullet!" Meanwhile, at the Brussels version of the 'adventures in wonderland tea party' during the, creative accountancy seance - they are still trying to contact their awol zombie: birdbrainded to braindead.

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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:55 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
Posts: 4434
Yet again we can see just how out of their depth the Green Tosser and Gideon are......by bleating on about a "Big Bazooka" they tell us all that they have no idea what is really going on......There is no money to make a "Big Bazooka", which is why the EU is running around all over the world looking for help/money and quite rightly no one is offering any, A. because they don't have it themselves and B. if they do, why piss it away on idiots and their idiot dreams.

Poor old Mervyn King must be wondering just how this bunch ever got so far. His latest comments should be seen as a covert warning to the Green Tosser, to stop pissing away our non existent money, on what is abundantly clear to anyone who is even half sane, a lost cause.


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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:06 am 
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Jonathan wrote:
UKIP is alas why we will not leave the EU.
If it did not exist, The Tories might split as Labour and SDP split.
But the vacuum is filled by a dysfunctional small bunch who are in it for publicity, significant EU expenses,
and have no interest in building local party base and contesting local elections...which gives you General Election credibility.
The 79 Conservative rebels will not split and join UKIP under the present leadership and indeed last leader (who campaigned against UKIP candidates in 2010).
The third biggest party in the UK is not the LibDems party membership but ex-UKIP party members.
They join, see what is there, they quickly leave while still seeking an Independent UK.
When it can not retain Dr North, Szamuely, very many other credible people and not even keep Nikki Sinclaire as members....this Farage plaything is the obstacle not the solution!! PDT_Armataz_01_10
Peter Hitchins will not touch UKIP...says it all.
Kilroy Silk would have made them credible with the TV voters and made them professional (and he had been an MP) but the manner of his departure put off all MPs even considering defecting to them. He saw who they really were, what they really believed, that leaving The EU was not top of their priority list.
UK Independence is a noble political goal. The problem with 'UKIP' is not the 'UKI' but rather the 'Party'.


You would not expect me to disagree in principle ... I see UKIP as a bed-blocker.

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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:30 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:11 pm
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The thing that always concerns me about any independence party in general and UKIP in particular is that their continued success and income rests on us remaining in the EU. If we leave, it ceases to have purpose.

No individual within the party would think this, except perhaps a few cynics; nevertheless, the party itself believes this. The party, being an emergent "intelligence" (for want of a better word), is a creature with goals that are tangential to the goals of its constituent parts and it will act to preserve itself for as long as possible. That inevitably means acting at some level to perpetuate the status quo.

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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:33 am 
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RAENORTH wrote:
Britain was facing a new multi-billion-pound bill to prop up the euro last night as the single currency teetered on the brink of collapse, says The Daily Mail. It is not the end. It is not the beginning of the end. But it may well be the end of the beginning. There is no way back.

View full article here

But I note that it is now likely that the IMF will step in to rescue them. So, whether we like it or not (and Cameron and Osborne seem to like it), we shall be continuing to hand over large wads of cash to prop up the Euro. A glance at the recent change in leadership of the IMF, the insistence that its new director should be a European makes me wonder whether the Strauss-Kahn affair was engineered to get the hands of an even more craven Euro-lover on to the steering wheel of the IMF. Usually I am not given to conspiracy theory, but it makes you think, don't it?

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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:36 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
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Might this be why the the Bank of England will be inventing more money soon - to pay for the bailout through the BoE buying bank debt, banks buying government debt and the government throwing it at Brussels?


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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:46 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:33 pm
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Where is Clarke, or Blair or Heseltine and all the others who insisted that the Euro was the best thing since sliced bread? I am sure their combined wisdom
has a solution! :)

The next few days are going to be interesting...but no Euro by Monday? They will do in all the powers to try to save it and therefore to try to save face. However, I intend to agree with Richard that this cannot go on and on. As an aside, how about Ireland adopting the £? I don't know enough about economics to have an opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: End game
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Never mind all the financial acronyms; the bottom line is that the Euro cannot survive without Germany.
Angie needs a few more rebels with 'full noses' in her own coalition to focus attention lest the man in the street does it for her.
This is one coat of paint that can't dry quickly enough.
I note that those with outstretched hands are telling Cameron to pay up, shut up & fuck off...(of the Euro but not in the Euro, to paraphrase Vague)

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