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 Post subject: Fear
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:45 pm 
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I am not sure the man is right. Only six months ago, I was asserting that they had lost their fear. One would like to think that those six months have made the difference. But the Jeffersonian precept is still a long way from being satisfied – although, for those who are determined to make a point, the means are still available.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:36 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
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No comment facility on Moore's effort, imho, his heart is in the right place and who knows?

Perhaps, the Blues brothers of Barclay's channel island may be turning the screw - he is starting [Moore] to make the right noises [not before time mind] - will they dump him like Simon Heffer if he plays up rough?

BTW, great article in the Mail - seems to have fallen on deaf ears though [sadly] - is there anybody effin listening?

Dave is so full of himself - or so numb [probably the latter] he can start a war in fly blown faraway lands, impervious to what the bloody country would like him to do -ie, go forth and multiply!

Any road up, there may be a fomenting kerfuffle here, can Hilton **** some sense into Dave? (Chief Hilton like Moore - also making promising noises - scuse the flowery frippery from Quentin - bless him) - Lib dhimmis won't like it - **** them with a shovel, metaphorically speaking natch. PDT_Armataz_01_25


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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:41 am 
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Posts: 98
Location: Somerset, England
Likewise. The system as it currently stands leaves us little means to enact a change of approach from our Government (Brussels, Westminster or otherwise). Peter Oborne (your favourite) is emphasising:
Quote:
...the system of government that has been exposed in all of its barbarism and moral horror over the past few weeks. As the Westminster season mercifully draws towards a close, it is extremely important to ponder what comes next – for I am certain that there is a wonderful opportunity here to embark upon a new political era, and a new way of doing things.

I can't say I agree with him or Moore. We are, as you say, still some way off the creation of a new settlement between our political elite and the electorate.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:57 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
Posts: 1441
From Chris Palmer:

Quote:
In all honesty, I do not believe we can achieve much until one of the established political parties collapses – mostly likely the Tories. For such a seismic political event, the conditions must be just right – and that time is not yet. But it will come… or there really is no hope.


I find, I have to agree with the above statement - I do really wonder - why the Red Tories and conservatives have stayed together for this long [power obviously] but surely the enmity is now at, or, near breaking point more especially, with the Party being in thrall to this useless wet blouse, Cameron.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:20 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:50 pm
Posts: 906
Wisdom is underway as the last EU monetary measures only have resulted in a further deterioration of the debt crises.
Our national leaders who came home from the crises meeting with "good news" now will be confronted with the full brunt of failure.
Careers are at stake, Spain has called for early elections and as the carefully camouflaged cracks in the House of Cards called European Union become visible for all to see, the "unity" will proof to be as unsustainable as the Global Warming lies.
And with that fear will be an integral part of life for any politician who dares to make further EU commitments that undermine the National integrity.

Maybe they instead of our pensioners should move to Greece for an early retirement.

I'm sure the Greek population will await them with a warm welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:43 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:44 am
Posts: 293
My sense is that the picture is a mixed one.

On the one hand their fear has led to the introduction of some frankly very sinister legislation indeed whilst this will have introduced a false sense of security.

Meanwhile they move among us ringed with steel and armour which appears to contradict the sense of security....

I dunno.....

Maybe more CCTV is the answer?

It will go wrong.

They are on notice.

Proshesising not advocating.......for the relevant agencies monitoring this and all the others who contribute...


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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:29 am 
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Posts: 1391
Location: England
The issue: Dear Sir George,

I wrote to you on 26th June this year and you confirmed to me that European Union Citizenship was "given" to me by the Treat of Maastricht which our Government signed at the time.

As this is not something I want or have ever requested, can you please tell me how I can renounce this "extra" citizenship with legal effect. If I ever want to be a citizen of another state or Country I will apply for such.

Date Issue Raised: 19 Aug 2003
My response: Thank you for your inquiry which I have forwarded to the MEP for Hampshire, Roy Perry. He will be in touch with you shortly.

This is his reply.
"Sir George Young MP has passed to me a copy of your enquiry regarding European Union Citizenship.

I do not believe that this is something you can "renounce" as requested.
Article 8 of the Maastricht Treaty is very clear that if you are a citizen of any of the EU Member States that you are also a citizen of the EU, "Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the
Union."

There is no mention of how such citizenship may be revoked, other than obviously by seeking nationality of a country that is not within the EU."


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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:37 am 
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Stuart wrote:
The issue: Dear Sir George,

I wrote to you on 26th June this year and you confirmed to me that European Union Citizenship was "given" to me by the Treat of Maastricht which our Government signed at the time.

As this is not something I want or have ever requested, can you please tell me how I can renounce this "extra" citizenship with legal effect. If I ever want to be a citizen of another state or Country I will apply for such.

Date Issue Raised: 19 Aug 2003
My response: Thank you for your inquiry which I have forwarded to the MEP for Hampshire, Roy Perry. He will be in touch with you shortly.

This is his reply.
"Sir George Young MP has passed to me a copy of your enquiry regarding European Union Citizenship.

I do not believe that this is something you can "renounce" as requested.
Article 8 of the Maastricht Treaty is very clear that if you are a citizen of any of the EU Member States that you are also a citizen of the EU, "Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the
Union."

There is no mention of how such citizenship may be revoked, other than obviously by seeking nationality of a country that is not within the EU."


There is another way, but he wouldn't like that. However, the fact that our masters should have agreed something that so fundamentally affects our status, without first seeking our permission, is quite staggering. This is the action not of a democratic government but of an occupying power.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:58 am 
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Posts: 1391
Location: England
RAENORTH wrote:
Stuart wrote:
The issue: Dear Sir George,

I wrote to you on 26th June this year and you confirmed to me that European Union Citizenship was "given" to me by the Treat of Maastricht which our Government signed at the time.

As this is not something I want or have ever requested, can you please tell me how I can renounce this "extra" citizenship with legal effect. If I ever want to be a citizen of another state or Country I will apply for such.

Date Issue Raised: 19 Aug 2003
My response: Thank you for your inquiry which I have forwarded to the MEP for Hampshire, Roy Perry. He will be in touch with you shortly.

This is his reply.
"Sir George Young MP has passed to me a copy of your enquiry regarding European Union Citizenship.

I do not believe that this is something you can "renounce" as requested.
Article 8 of the Maastricht Treaty is very clear that if you are a citizen of any of the EU Member States that you are also a citizen of the EU, "Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the
Union."

There is no mention of how such citizenship may be revoked, other than obviously by seeking nationality of a country that is not within the EU."


There is another way, but he wouldn't like that. However, the fact that our masters should have agreed something that so fundamentally affects our status, without first seeking our permission, is quite staggering. This is the action not of a democratic government but of an occupying power.


I was just struck by his kind invitation to f*ck off. Notice the date I asked this question. After a brief exchange of a few questions and answers, I branded my MP a traitor. He refused to communicate with me after that. I stand by my assertion. He was born from a prilevedged family, went to oxford to get his PPE degree and hardly worked in the private sector before becoming an MP for Wandsworth I believe. When this constituency was abolished, he was parachuted into the safe seat of North-West Hampshire. He had never lived here and was and still is not one of us. So how can he represent us? He believes in membership of the EU and all that entails. He recently said that we should not be part of bailouts, yet forgot to mention our increased contribution to the IMF which he voted for. His share of the £9bn giveaway to the IMF is £36 million which he now owes us. He can consider himself noted by Madam Defarge (NBMD) from at least 2003.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:53 am
Posts: 1391
Location: England
Voting
The issue: The recent Conservative vote of no confidence struck a chord with me.
Twenty-five signatures or letters were sent to the 1922 committee, triggering
the referendum of confidence in their leader.

Having thought about it, I believe what is good enough for the Conservative
party must be good enough for the British electorate. A mechanism for a
specified number of British people to trigger a full referendum on a particular
matter of Governance or even a confidence vote in the Government itself if it
gets completely out of touch with the electorate.

The Conservatives are currently using the argument that many referendums have
been held across the country by New Labour and are requesting one on the
European Union Constitution, so I do not believe the Conservatives have a
legitimate argument against the British people having the means to request a
referendum directly themselves. I do not know whether New Labour have a similar
rule within their party but if so would mean they must back such a mechanism
also.

I am amazed that many organizations have rules to ensure democratic decision
making is ensured yet our country has to live with a Government for five years
without legal recourse. Organizations including our political parties which
would doubtless not back such democracy in the country as a whole.

The current situation of the opposition party begging for a referendum only
highlights the need for an official legitimate mechanism for the people to hold
a binding referendum, rather than live in a dictatorship for all but one day
every five years.

Date Issue Raised: 31 Oct 2003
My response: Thank you for the email.
While I understand your argument, I do not agree with it. The referendums you refer to have been agreed by Parliament, and the Conservative Party is arguing that Parliament should authorise a referendum on the new EU Constitution. If we are returned at a General Election, that is what will happen.
You want a referendum that is not authorised by Parliament - indeed one that may overturn something that Parliament has done. I think it very difficult to reconcile that with our system of Parliamentary sovereignty.

[Sir George Young]


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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:01 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:52 am
Posts: 841
They do not fear the people, not one little bit. I got an e-mail from Cameron this morning boasting about what had been done for us and telling me that it was along term plan. He hasn't got a plan, long or short except the one that fills his pockets. There was no mention of the energy crisis that we are headed towards, everything was fine and he is going away on his holidays. Just another happy, self serving PR man off to the sunshine never a thought that the Country, our Country, has a few problems that need to be dealt with. PDT_Armataz_01_19


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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:19 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
Posts: 1441
Quote:
Wisdom is underway as the last EU monetary measures only have resulted in a further deterioration of the debt crises.
Our national leaders who came home from the crises meeting with "good news" now will be confronted with the full brunt of failure.
Careers are at stake, Spain has called for early elections and as the carefully camouflaged cracks in the House of Cards called European Union become visible for all to see, the "unity" will proof to be as unsustainable as the Global Warming lies.
And with that fear will be an integral part of life for any politician who dares to make further EU commitments that undermine the National integrity.

Maybe they instead of our pensioners should move to Greece for an early retirement.

I'm sure the Greek population will await them with a warm welcome.


Perchance........... the Greeks would then like to use these 'vanities' and make a bonfire.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:03 pm
Posts: 437
Thanks to Stuart for that information on Mastricht (wherever that is)and citizenship of the invading power. Personally, I announce my rejection of it as a label- when and wherever I can. I had a long argument with an Irish American the other day, who insisted that all Britons are european; and I'm prepared to take on anybody else on the issue. If I were at Home I think I'd start a campaign that uses stickers, fliers, posters, etc. to declare: "I'm British; I reject eu citizenship." As it is, whenever possible I wear a T-shirt that sports a burning eu "flag."


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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:10 am
Posts: 122
Location: Corfu, Greece.
Ravenscar wrote:
Quote:
Wisdom is underway as the last EU monetary measures only have resulted in a further deterioration of the debt crises.
Our national leaders who came home from the crises meeting with "good news" now will be confronted with the full brunt of failure.
Careers are at stake, Spain has called for early elections and as the carefully camouflaged cracks in the House of Cards called European Union become visible for all to see, the "unity" will proof to be as unsustainable as the Global Warming lies.
And with that fear will be an integral part of life for any politician who dares to make further EU commitments that undermine the National integrity.

Maybe they instead of our pensioners should move to Greece for an early retirement.

I'm sure the Greek population will await them with a warm welcome.


Perchance........... the Greeks would then like to use these 'vanities' and make a bonfire.

No Thanks ---We've got enough of our own!!


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 Post subject: Re: Fear
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 6700
Hi, Mel, what's it like on the ground in Corfu?
Food in shops? Police in pairs? Anger at banks or politicians?

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