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 Post subject: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
These people are taking us for a ride. Little Dave said he was going to sort it, but that was just another of his lies to add to a growing list of lies. He now looks stupid – not that he ever looked any different – and he is now making us look stupid as well.

Are there any grown-up out there, at all, who can sort this out? Or do they really want us to do it? Then, they'll not be looking at human rights so much as last rites. And if that is inflammatory, stop to consider how this plays out. As best - stretching it to breaking point - we are prepared to tolerate immigrant couples reuniting. But the most fundamental issue here is one of integration - if you want to become a British citizen, you learn the language.

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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:36 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
Posts: 1441
Read it on Ceefax earlier.

Straight away, I thought to myself, this is a shyster looking for a test case and the consequent bit of fame [and oodles of public cash - or is he pro bono?], and you know what, the establishment will fall over themselves to cave in to this one - it is written.

Verdict: here's your tickets, passport and benefits old luv.


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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:01 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:46 pm
Posts: 527
No doubt it is the taxpayer that is picking up the legal fees. Just to rub it in even more.


We are paying for our own suicide.

Thanks to "Dave"


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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:12 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 333
I concur with previous posts. There is very little chance this couple will lose the case. One more nail in the coffin and one more tick for the multi-culti ideal. When they are reunited, no doubt the council will be falling over themselves to give lots of money to them. We are friends with Indian people on our street and have the broadest local accents you can imagine; but they also speak in Hindu (I believe) to each other and mid-sentence changing back to English. I admire them for being able to do that. There are 3 generations of them now and they have integrated perfectly in the British way of life. They loathe these kind of shysters. I wonder what Vaz had to say on this?


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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:21 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 6700
An army of integrated immigrants demanding that benefits are for english-speakers only would be extremely powerful.

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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:34 am 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 264
I've said elsewhere on this forum, this is what happens when you are are fair and honest and reasonable. People just see it as a weakness and exploit it,


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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:53 am
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Location: England
She has been travelling back and forth to India for 15 years. How much money has that cost? If they want to be reunited, she can always bugger off back to India. Why do they always have to reunite here?


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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:28 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:42 pm
Posts: 80
My first thought was why now after 15 years, then you read that they have been married for 37 years, so she must be nearing retirement....
Plus once they are here their kids and their dependants have a right to come too, remember it's their right to a family life. PDT_Armataz_01_19


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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:11 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Posts: 53
I was born in this country, but when I went to school at five it was a shock for me to discover that hardly anyone spoke my language. The few other kids from the same background would not be seen dead talking to me in anything but English. Luckily this was in the 60's, and there were no special classes, no extra resources or anything like that. Six months later I spoke English pretty much all the time - at home and at school. My parents learned it from me (we didn't have a TV, which would have helped I suppose), and my brothers and sisters went to school speaking English too. A year later when another kid arrived who couldn't speak English, I did what everyone else did and only spoke to him in English.

Now, one of my kids is a primary school teacher and she, like me, is appalled at the state of affairs. The education system goes out of its way to keep these kids where they are - trapped in their parents culture and only half helped to speak English properly. It does these kids no favours, it does their parents no favours and it certainly does not do wider society any favours. However, it does make the 'race' professionals (most of whom are white and middle class), very happy.


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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:42 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:32 am
Posts: 117
I look at this from a slightly different point of view as I have personal experience of a situation that, while different to the one highlighted (which has my spider sense tingling with the 15 years hiatus and all the back and forth travel but who knows), would have fallen foul to the rules.

I was working abroad (for a British company) virtually all of my twenties. I am fluent in the language of the country I was working in and while there met and married. As I spoke her language my wife never learnt English and eventually I was moved back to the UK when the contract was ended - these things happen quickly in the oil industry.

Of course, since we have been back my wife now speaks English and has passed the Life in the UK test and so on but what would have happened had this rule been in place? Say it took my wife 6 months to learn English to a suitable level, would I have had to be separated from my family for 6 months whilst she learns English? We had an infant son at the time and I wouldn't really have liked to miss those six months. I could have left my job and tried to stay there but that wasn't really an option as it would have meant visa problems for me (I sometimes wish our immigration laws simply mirrored those of the country the immigrant was applying from).

By all means give people a year (or whatever) to learn English after they arrive here but I don't think not speaking English should be a barrier for initial entry.


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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:46 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 6700
Quote:
By all means give people a year (or whatever) to learn English after they arrive here but I don't think not speaking English should be a barrier for initial entry.


Yup!

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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:08 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:01 am
Posts: 183
Some of these articles in the papers,I feel,are designed deliberately to wind one up,this being no exception. Yes,she will win her case,yes,it will cost us a lot of taxpayers money and,YES, it's a countdown to when the ordinary people start to revolt against our political elite. Heads on spikes on London Bridge!!
PDT_Armataz_01_19
PDT_Armataz_01_40


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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:20 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:05 am
Posts: 239
Quote:
Heads on spikes on London Bridge!!

I'm sure some hobbledehoy from Health and Safety would come along and tell you not to go near those dangerous spikes...


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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:49 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
Posts: 4434
norman

In a sensible world you should not have a problem with yr situation, as yr circumstances are perfectly normal and the authorities should understand the situation as such.

The law is designed to try and control immigration, but as Richard says we have no means of doing so, while under EU occupation.

I agree with others, this looks like a fishing exercise all paid for by legal aid. Whoever is representing her is just farming legal aid.


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 Post subject: Re: This is getting stupid
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1862
norman wrote:
I look at this from a slightly different point of view as I have personal experience of a situation that, while different to the one highlighted (which has my spider sense tingling with the 15 years hiatus and all the back and forth travel but who knows), would have fallen foul to the rules.

I was working abroad (for a British company) virtually all of my twenties. I am fluent in the language of the country I was working in and while there met and married. As I spoke her language my wife never learnt English and eventually I was moved back to the UK when the contract was ended - these things happen quickly in the oil industry.

Of course, since we have been back my wife now speaks English and has passed the Life in the UK test and so on but what would have happened had this rule been in place? Say it took my wife 6 months to learn English to a suitable level, would I have had to be separated from my family for 6 months whilst she learns English? We had an infant son at the time and I wouldn't really have liked to miss those six months. I could have left my job and tried to stay there but that wasn't really an option as it would have meant visa problems for me (I sometimes wish our immigration laws simply mirrored those of the country the immigrant was applying from).

By all means give people a year (or whatever) to learn English after they arrive here but I don't think not speaking English should be a barrier for initial entry.

Had the language requirement been in place at the time you returned to Britain might you and Mrs norman have prepared for it?

It *is* a precaution but not a satisfactory one. It does at least put a bit more responsibility for getting by in Britain onto immigrants coming here. But it really only treats a symptom rather than a cause - there is no encouragement to integrate and plenty of discouragement. You could seriously help that along without a State authorised language requirement by simply not providing taxpayer funded translation services.

Stopping Government translation services would boost the private economy for both translating english into foreign languages and for tutoring immigrants in english. The language requirement is the State saying 'you must do this'. Stopping the translating of all kinds of things into all manner of languages would be the State saying 'we will no longer do this' which is a cheaper and less authoritarian way.


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