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 Post subject: A rational act
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:55 pm 
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Europe's second bail-out for the crisis-hit Greek economy risks undermining the foundations of the European Union, the president of Germany's Bundesbank has warned. And the picture was taken before photoshop was invented. It's real, and was seen as a solution at the time. An anonymous donor paid good money for the street advert, "somewhere in London". It wasn't an answer.

It has to be said, though, that our masters are driving us in the same direction and some might think that a repeat is called-for. And when the euro finally goes belly-up, there are a lot of people who will turn to violence, as their idea of a solution.

So what do we make of the Norwegian killings? In an outwardly calm and civilised country, still waters run deep. Is this a "nutter" running amok, or is there something more to it? Is there something in this society of ours that is driving the less stable elements to take such extreme measures?

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:36 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:28 am
Posts: 159
Location: Oslo
I was wondering if you'd post about Anders Behring Breivik (AKA Andrew Berwick).

It seems like he was a neighbour of mine for a short period but I don't recognise him (I was also a neighbour of Fred West in 1984 so maybe I have an effect on people!).

Basically, he was a counter-jihadist. A follower of Fjordman and Bat Ye'or and spent a lot of time on websites such as Gates of Vienna and Brussels Journal. He's well educated, articulate and has always lived on the affluent west-side of Oslo.

Although he describes himself as both conservative and christian, nothing indicates to me that he is anything like the media describes him. Titles such as "Christian Fundamentalist" and "Right-Wing Extremist" have been bandied about liberally but I don't think he's anything more than a frustrated Nationalist.

He's frustrated by a political system where the major parties have continually drifted towards the middle ground and left him without any voting option to change what he sees as the wrongs in the multi-cultural society.

These were not terror attacks either (although the media insists on calling them that). He has placed the blame for Norway's progressive immigration policy at the feet of the Arbeiderpartiet (Norwegian Labour Party) and launched a one man war against them. The bomb in Oslo was outside the Prime ministers office and the island massacre took place shortly after former Prime Minister, Gro Harlem Brundtland, had addressed the annual summer gathering of the Arbeiderpartiet's youth movement. They were targetted attacks against a political philosophy that he holds responsible for the 'Islamification' of Norway.

There is a right-wing populist party in Norway (Fremskritspartiet) that is immigration critical. They are the third largest party in Norway and frequently poll between 20-25% at general elections. This party, it's politicians and it's voters are consistently decribed as being "stupid, ignorant, drunken racists" on a daily basis. Anytime there is any kind of debate theses insults are thrown around wildly to close down the discussion.

This is my translation of what Breivik had to say about these tactics (text in square brackets is added by me for extra clarity):

You state that all Norwegians that don't accept Gro Harlem Brundtland's definition of what it is to be a Norwegian citizen are racists:

[Brundtland says that] "Everyone that at any time holds a Norwegian passport are full valued Norwegians".....Which means that even the Somalian (with Norwegian passport) that chews khat all day long, beats his wife and sends half of his social security money to Al-Shabaab should be seen as a full valued Norwegian.

If anyone in this country DARES to look at this Somalian as anything other than a full valued Norwegian, they're called racists and must be publicly branded. And you say that all that disagree with your extreme cultural-marxist world view - the utopian, world citizen definition are racists?

If that is the case then I think that you have stamped 95% of the world's population as exactly that but you don't really care, do you?

You are simply concerned with paralysing all debate in society, to cripple all that are not of the same opinion as you, to exercise social control along similar lines to the Conservative muslims in Grønland [an area of central Oslo with high immigrant population where homosexuals have been attacked and women have been openly criticised for wearing inappropriate clothing].

I'm sorry, but it doesn't work any more. Many are becoming increasingly immune against your baiting techniques because of the massive increase in your rhetoric.

I think that the majority of Norwegians require full cultural assimilation (European culture) in order to classify someone as being a full valued Norwegian.


I think that there are hundreds of thousands of people in Norway that share many of Breivik's views regarding the multi-cultural experiment but, fortunately, I doubt if any of them are radicalised to such an extent that they want to commit violence to make their views known. However, this could open the gates for copy-cat attacks, especially as it already appears that the politicians have learnt nothing from friday's actions, using the guys short membership of the Fremskritspartiet as a new way to stigmatise the party regardless of the fact that he left of his own accord because they weren't radical enough.

The worst thing (apart from the actual killings of course) is that he has shot his own cause in the foot in a very big way. This has probably guaranteed an Arbeiderpartiet led government for at least the next decade. Pillock!

PS. Here is a link to all of Breivik's comments at document.no translated (rather poorly) via Google:
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... breivik%2F


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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:01 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 805
The photo of the Bomb Berlin poster was published in the Sunday Express of 6 October 1940 by which time Bomber Command had raided Berlin on six nights beginning on 25 August. Accuracy was very poor. Allegedly, a Mr Begbie admitted to being behind the posters, but as paper had been rationed since 1940 and ample DORA regulations controlling everything, it's more likely that the posters were a cunning plan by the Ministry of Information to start a snowball of public opinion in favour of a policy yet retaining deniability.
That being said, there's no way that the Norwegian government or Lizard people or whatever would allow this Manchurian Candidate to act thereby prompting the public to demand greater control for public safety. The sad events in Norway were simply Black Swan events that nobody could have reasonably predicted. Look at these statistics - in 2008 there were only 28 homicides in total in Norway.


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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:48 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:42 am
Posts: 412
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Thanks to billyquiz for an interesting overview
I lived in Oslo for a year about 25 years ago.
At that time it was very "white", and they were (are) very patriotic.

It's not hard to see how there would be a pushback on immigration (some of the locals regarded us Brits as a kind of Mexican labour force back then)


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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:43 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:59 pm
Posts: 21
I can't even begin to imagine the horror that has been unleashed. 100 people dead, probably more to come.

What is even more eye opening to me, is the fact this guy has a full 'manifesto' of grievances. The document is 812 pages and a whopping 770,191 words long, referenced all the way. I can hardly believe that just one person wrote this... It makes for some very troubling/depressing reading.

Zerohedge got hold of a copy and has published it: -
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/mass-k ... -manifesto

Youtube have removed a video he posted, but as of now, it is still available here (anti-jihadist): -
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v21123164bZCBQeZ8

We have the birth of a violent anti-jihadist/anti-marxist movement, the seeds of a pan-european civil war.

For the record, i am not condoning anything written in the links provided, but it would be wise to have at least a skim read; a lot of this stuff is 'close to the bone'.


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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:32 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 142
When I first became involved with what came to be called Euroscepticism, one thing was quite clear. The EU (as it became) was obviously a state in the making so it was fundamentally a matter of allegiance. With utter cynicism, our leaders set out to deceive people about what they were up to - transferring us all bit by bit from one state to another whilst pretending that they were doing nothing of the sort.

Having done business in Ireland, it was quite clear that disputes over allegiance would end in killing if they could not be resolved constitutionally. There was no way that I would wish such an evil this side of the water, so I have spent some 25 years of effort within the system - with a conspicuous lack of success - trying to warn people of the bleeding obvious.

One of the EU's supporters, Roy Hattersley, (BBC Radio 4 3 Feb 2000) put it rather well

"Not only was it wrong for us to deal superficially with what Europe involved, but we've paid the price for it ever since, because every time there's a crisis in Europe, people say with some justification "Well we would not have been part of this if we'd really known the implications"..."


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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:04 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:36 am
Posts: 66
I don't know if undermining the EU is such a bad idea. Or are you having an underminers' demarcation dispute? PDT_Armataz_01_28

From the Failygraph:
Quote:
"The most significant decision the euro leaders took was to expand the scope and powers of the eurozone's bail-out fund," he said. "It can now buy the debt of countries in distress and fund bank rescues. These are very early days and we will see if the fund can use its new powers in a decisive and credible way."

Such an economically ignorant, drivel can only come from ... Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne. That evidently feckless nincompoop is so deluded that he can't face up to the truth of it simply being a shift of debt. Osborne's reasoning is similar to those losers who "pay off" their credit card debts by shifting the debt to a new card.

Debts can only be paid by expenditure that is a reduction in wealth.


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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:27 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:04 pm
Posts: 113
Berfel. Good post. Fully agree that Osborne's comment border are arrogant and border on a level of political madness. As you say:

Quote:
"Debts can only be paid by expenditure that is a reduction in wealth."


And to illustrate the principle yet again. The abominable "payment"/gift/donation/ of £9 Billion of British taxpayer's money to the IMF/EU sop to the bankers was an astonishing act of folly by this government. This may seem a relatively small amount in relation to our total GDP in the mind of the Chancellor, but as RN and others have already pointed out, this is money we are borrowing anyway.
Where is the logic, or political savvy in such an act which in effect is a studied insult to all of us as taxpayers? Many of us will never allow this corrupt gang of crooks (Coalition) to forget this, another act act of treachery. Their devotion to an internationalist and EU centered ideology rather than their duty of care to their own country and people is clear for all to see.
Election time there will indeed be a day of reckoning for Osborne, Cameron, and their EU besotted pals.
What would £9 Billion pay for if expended within the British economy? Its loss is, as you say, a reduction in wealth collectively for the British economy.


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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:55 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:30 pm
Posts: 527
Quote from zerohedge, who have published a link to Anders' 'manifesto':

"..We won't even pretend we have come anywehere (sic) close to reading this, or have any interest in doing so.."


I hope that someone in government has. Because the gist of what I have seen so far suggests that he is a nationalist Norwegian who regards himself as a patriot, and has spent some time attacking the influx of African immigrants into that country.

The Norwegian government's approach to such attacks has been to sideline such opposition and smear it as racist and the product of disordered minds. I do not know the Norwegian equivalent of 'deniers' and 'flat-earthers', but I would not be surprised to find that government using such language about this opposition to their policies.

Eventually, the repeated official indifference to his concerns became too great for him to bear, with the results that we now see.


So long as governments apply themselves to subjects which only touch the common man peripherally, such as Foreign Policy or Criminal Law, they are fairly safe from touching off such a response. But when governments start to interfere with the everyday life of their citizens, the potential for such a reaction becomes far greater. It is instructive to consider that if the EU had not produced the myriad of trading and environmental regulations that it has, and simply concentrated on 'ever-increasing union' at the political level, there would probably have been no dissent whatsoever from the general public.

If governments are intelligent, they will take this sort of thing as a wake-up call. But governments are not intelligent, so we can expect an increased level of interference with our everyday lives.

And thus the cycle continues. For the coming economic depression, put your money into security barrier and body-scanning company shares. Such technology does not address the fundamental problem, but it will be where our taxes are spent.....


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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:18 am 
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Quote:
We have the birth of a violent anti-jihadist/anti-marxist movement, the seeds of a pan-european civil war.

Like this?

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/John_Brown_%28abolitionist%29

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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:33 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 6700
In Canada, Australia or the USA the body count would be under 20.
He could be sure the nearest guns other than his were 2 hrs+ away.

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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:37 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:04 pm
Posts: 113
Billyquiz. Thanks for the informative background of your knowledge about Norway.

Quote:
"He's frustrated by a political system where the major parties have continually drifted towards the middle ground and left him without any voting options to change what he sees as the wrongs in the multi-cultural society."


I think your comment stands out as being very important, not only as an insight into the mind of the Norwegian killer, but illustrative of the common problem that we all face, and which may lead to further acts of violence if the legitimate concerns of the electorate are frustrated at every turn by the current political system and its abuse.

Leave aside the 'multi-cultural element' in his thinking and consider that his views and consequent frustration find an echo in the minds of many here in the UK for the very same reason. There is, I suggest a more serious aspect, namely where the ruling party engages in discussions with various outside internationalist organisations, and where collective "decisions" about policies (presumably on a New World Order agenda) are taken in secret, and to which British cabinet members and certainly MPs are not privy.
Thus polices are formed which are not only not openly debated in our Parliament, but which have already been agreed fait accompli by others outside it. An illustration of this is the following report on George Osborne's attendance at the recent Bilderberg meeting which was an FOI request (not mine)

Posted: 23 Jul 2011 09:09 AM PDT
"Nationalists, and probably more than a few who are not, have had a suspicion that Chancellor George Osborne attended the meeting of the secretive Bilderberg group.
This is the reply to a FOI request I sent to the Treasury. It is interesting because not only does it confirm that you the taxpayers paid for the travel and accommodation costs of the official who accompanied George Osborne, but they-the Treasury- claim that it is in the public interest to keep secret what had been discussed.
Since when did a servant of the ‘Crown’ have the right to discuss matters of State in a ‘Carlton House rules’ meeting outside of this country, with big business and media tycoons in attendance? (GW. Indeed so. Also, why are the discussions deemed to be secret if Osborne attended "in an official capacity and paid for by the taxpayer?)

Is the Treasury saying that nothing pertaining to the economy of Great Britain was discussed, if our economy was not a subject for discussion, then what was he doing there?"


(Treasury reply concerning the confidentail nature of "discussions" available)


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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:42 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 86
Following on from the murders in Norway is the danger for all who oppose 'multiculturalism' and all that it stand for will be the subject of censorship.
There is a high probability that the murders will be used to close or restrict all sites and outlets that don't toe the 'party line'. The censors will use their powers to limit what they consider to be 'hate speech'. That in turn will be defined in practice as anything or anyone who opposes them.
Posts on this blog write about 'stringing them up", and the censors will use this as an excuse to limit free speak. Maybe the threat of censorship will have the desired effect of self censorship?


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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:51 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:01 am
Posts: 183
When I first eard of the killings,I thought, like most people,that it was the work of the Islamists in our midst. Now we find out that it was by a 'right-wing,fundamentalist Christian,' boy oh boy,are the lefties going to have 'fun' with this. I wonder if the BBC will mention anything about the 'Manifesto'?
This does seem to be a well worked out plan to get at the politicians who support multiculturalism,but,killing a load of youngsters at a camp,does not get at those self same politicians that really DO need shooting. Being in a civilised Country, he will now go on trial and,it will be interesting what comes out of it all.Others that have committed these sort of crimes have generally shot themselves,but,this is different.
I do know that if I could lay my hands on a gun,I would head off in the direction of Parliament and take out as many of the self-serving bastards as I could.Whether it would make any difference,I don't know,but,it would give me great satisfaction in doing so.
If I were Camoron, Osbourne, or that prat Mitchell,I would feel rather uneasy today.
PDT_Armataz_01_19
PDT_Armataz_01_40


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 Post subject: Re: A rational act
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:06 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:52 am
Posts: 841
Will it make any difference in this Country when the poor, and not so poor, start to die in the next cold spell because buffHuhne has denied them the energy to keep warm? Energy prices are rising so Cameron thinks it a good idea to cut the winter fuel allowance, power stations are to be shut with no replacement for some time, all in aid of what? According to Camerloon, we are all in this together, I do not think so. He and his clique will not go short.......of anything! And what of the Oath he took to maintain the Monarchy and serve the People of this Realm? I am one who regards an Oath as a solemn promise not to be broken except in extreme circumstances, certainly not to gain power to sell our Country out.


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