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 Post subject: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:11 am 
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The biggest strike for five years, we are told, will cause huge disruption to schools, courts, travel and much else. It will be the most serious industrial challenge to Dave's coalition since it was formed. Hundreds of thousands of teachers, lecturers, civil servants and other workers will walk out for 24 hours in protest at plans to change their pensions, cut jobs and freeze pay.

The question is this: why is it that the people with their hands out for our money can be so easily induced to take collective action when their income stream is threatened, yet we the PBI who have to pay the bills are reluctant to mobilise (or are incapable of so doing)?

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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:25 pm
Posts: 36
Location: North Yorkshire
Quote:
There are no equivalent organisations which serve the taxpayer.


There damned well is and they know damned well who they are; the brownnosing, cheating, europhillic, sophistic, fallacious, lying, melogent, ... . I'm trying to be polite here folks, feel free to help me out ... fatherless twats ... and they know who they are.

Rant over, been Newclear Browning tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:07 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:47 pm
Posts: 489
Location: Lytham St Annes, Lancashire, England
RAENORTH wrote:
... There is, of course, the Taxpayers' Alliance, but I've come to see that as an Uncle Tom organisation ...

How else could one explain the rapid promotion of clever young men and the rise to 'prominence' of an organisation that actually doesn't do very much?


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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:10 am 

Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 2:06 pm
Posts: 2
Love it.

This morning on the world news the BBBC had an economic guru to tell us about the Greek debt problems and the British strikes today by teachers, “border agency” etc.

The beeboid's face was a picture.

Their specially chosen guru told the beeboids that the Greeks had been sold into slavery by their government and that they would ultimately default as their economy is not strong enough to pay the debt.

He then went on to say that public sector workers in the UK better wake up to what workers in private sector had to come to terms with some years ago. They were lied to and will not retire on the generous settlements they believed they would get.

Loved the sharp intake of breath and silence.

He then went on to explain the reason the money is no longer there is because the last Labour governemnt allowed the banks to enter the US sub-prime market and then threw good money after bad bailing the banks out.

Pure unadulterated joy. The truth that would not be spoken spoken.

However, they then completely ignored this in the next bulletin, back to the party line. THe EU will save the day, the coalition cuts are evil, the strikers right.


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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:25 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 142
THATCHERISM
You don't go very long in the mainstream media between virulent expressions of hatred for Mrs. Thatcher. My wife and I used to keep count and it was rare to have more than three days without some obloquy or other. She invented greed, you know, during those awful Eighties when the selfless miners were standing up for community values. I think it was her modest reductions in the Arts Council budget which earned her the hatred of the Luvvies, which they have elevated to an article of faith and virtue ever since.

There was some intellectual underpinning to Thatcherism, provided by people like SIr Alfred Sherman - a man who was a convinced communist (a real one, a machine gunner in the International Brigade) in his early years, who saw that his creed did not work in post war Yugoslavia. He rethought his position, applying the same ruthless logic to his own cherished beliefs as he later did so devastatingly to the soft-headed leftishness of others. I suppose I met him half a dozen times and have rarely come across such a keen intellect.

Trade unionism was consecrated as a pillar of the state during the war when Labour was in charge of the Ministry of Labour. Although strikes were illegal, the authorities preferred appeasement of militancy to using the law. Communists were influential in the shop stewards movement and used their power to manipulate grievances to sabotage Britain's bosses' "imperialist" . There were even strikes in aircraft factories during the Battle of Britain and the ringleaders (who could easily have been conscripted into the army) were left in position. Of course, the comrades became more enthusiastic for the war effort once their beloved Soviet Union was attacked.

Unfortunately the Conservatives inherited this habit of appeasing the unions as part of the re-thinking of their image to become the "nice party", electable again after the wipe-out of 1945. They dared not think of touching the "workers' rights" embodied in the Liberal Trade Disputes Act 1906 which placed trade unions and striking workers on a level with infants, lunatics and the Crown - as not responsible at civil law for breaches of contract and the consequences of their actions. This blighted British industry until the arrival of Mrs.T . Unfortunately, weak government, weak management and strong unions had rendered great swathes of industry unsaveable by that time.


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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:18 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:23 am
Posts: 252
Location: Police State
RAENORTH wrote:
Why is it that we, the people, the ones who are always left out, are not also on the march?


Hannan asks a similar question...

I think it is the trinkets that stop us marching/rioting... In the north we get more trinkets from government and many are easily dazzled by a few beads, even though we know that we are going to pay for them...

In the south, where ordinary folks are rioting, lazy governments rely on the good weather, so they have got nothing to lose.


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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:35 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:15 am
Posts: 1315
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Stephen Jenner wrote:
In the south, where ordinary folks are rioting, lazy governments rely on the good weather, so they have got nothing to lose.


No chance. The ordinary folk are NOT rioting in Greece, for example. It's a well known fact that the majority of the rioters are trade unionists belonging to state owned enterprises or public servants.

Ordinary folk in Greece are repelled by the violence and by their public 'servants'

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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:49 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:23 am
Posts: 252
Location: Police State
Downhill PV wrote:
Stephen Jenner wrote:
In the south, where ordinary folks are rioting, lazy governments rely on the good weather, so they have got nothing to lose.


No chance. The ordinary folk are NOT rioting in Greece, for example. It's a well known fact that the majority of the rioters are trade unionists belonging to state owned enterprises or public servants.

Ordinary folk in Greece are repelled by the violence and by their public 'servants'


There are not many others in Greece than state employees, but they are ordinary folks... The people in the north who aren't rioting, but some of whom are striking today, are ordinary folks too... But they are less exercised by it all, because of the trinkets. Remember that in the north, it's an old fashioned strike.


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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:08 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 278
Stephen Jenner wrote:
RAENORTH wrote:
Why is it that we, the people, the ones who are always left out, are not also on the march?


Hannan asks a similar question...

I think it is the trinkets that stop us marching/rioting...



And Hannan should know about trinkets - taking the coin of the EU as he does, whilst playing the court (or should that be ceurt) jester cum village idiot, laughingly tolerated by Barroso et al: if he had an ounce of self-respect or dignity, he would scarcely continue to sup wiith the devil.


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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:41 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:24 am
Posts: 137
I believe there are four reasons the silent majority aren't on the march:-

1. Worried of losing what they have got.

2. Nobody is yet REALLY hurting enough.

3. Continued party loyalties.

4.. The absence of anybody to lead the necessary revoluton. The Scargill's of this world get crushed by the establishment and the establishment brigade are doing very nicely thank you very much.

However when enough are affected by 2 above then something might happen.


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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:53 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:01 am
Posts: 183
The majority voted to go on strike out of a minority that actually voted,so the best part of the unions involved could not care less.
Scargill, pulled the miners out without a ballot,which upset a lot of the other miners.If he had done that,history might have been different. Thatcher was only doing what her EU bosses told her to do,it was a bit later that the penny dropped with her and that was that the EU could not be trusted to keep it's word. She was eventually stabbed in the back by the likes of Heseltine.
As in the film 'V for Vendetta',all the ills of the Country are abolished by a young Politician,who in turn,changes into a Hitler type of person.It then takes a revolutionary anarchist to sort the problem out by asking 'who is to blame,just look into the mirror'.
I think that the country is heading for something along those lines,a lot of what is happening is planned so that we,the people, will vote in a strong man. As someone once said, 'if voting changed anything,it would have been banned years ago'.
PDT_Armataz_01_42
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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:19 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:09 pm
Posts: 95
Location: Stroud Gloucestershire UK
Niall Warry wrote:
I believe there are four reasons the silent majority aren't on the march:-

1. Worried of losing what they have got.

2. Nobody is yet REALLY hurting enough.

3. Continued party loyalties.

4.. The absence of anybody to lead the necessary revoluton. The Scargill's of this world get crushed by the establishment and the establishment brigade are doing very nicely thank you very much.

However when enough are affected by 2 above then something might happen.


Number 2 is the key, and that moment is fast approaching and it may pick up so much speed that Call me Dave and boy George will find the brakes fade before they can stop the train smash. They have added too much self inflicted inflation and have forgotten the only truth of taxation. Raise taxes too high and tax revenue drops.


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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:29 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
Posts: 4434
edward

Well said....I fear she was a one off, we shall not see her like again in our lifetimes. The Tory party has quickly reverted to type, where "managed decline" and will you be at Buffo's this weekend, is the ruleing mantra.


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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:53 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 805
I write as a former civil servant with knowledge of private contactors charging extortionate sums for basic goods and services because contracting-out was more efficient and helped SMEs. It is in the nature of companies to charge as much as possible in the free market in order to maximise profits and arguing otherwise would be like wishing lians went vegan.
Blaming trade unions after the war is like blaming weak management who complacently thought that with the factories of Europe and Japan flattened, the world would rush to buy the same old same old British products for ever and that all that was needed was to keep British factories running as they had always done. Unfortunately, Europe and Japan took the opportunity to modernise and invest in r&d and productivity while Britain struggled to get back to the old comfortable time of running the world. How much money was wasted on maintaining bases in the back end of nowhere that would have been been better spent on railway electrification or even a modern phone system?
The mass of people have been bought off with meaningless house price inflation making them feel richer on paper while in the last thirty years the richest 1% have increased their share of wealth at the expense of the middle classes.
Public sector workers striking against cuts in their affordable deferred pay are actually fighting in the war against the global corporate fascists who transfer their capital around countries regardless of working conditions or civil liberties in order to maximise profits for their owners. Referists ought to ally with them against a common foe.


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 Post subject: Re: A question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:56 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:59 pm
Posts: 401
Quote:
"But, after the 1945 landslide election, instead of socialism, we got unionism".



The political situation post WW2 is one of the most interesting in UK political history. Oddly the difference in the treatment of sailors and ship owners was glossed over by many WW2 survivors. What developed was an acceptance of authority, a sort of blind faith in it; "they (the government) got us through the difficulties" etc.

Hence in the UK we convinced ourselves we were so much better that those awful continental folk who were always protesting about something. But alas we are not stoic but stupid. The blind faith in government and the mindless middle class desire to "keep the peace" are our undoing.


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