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 Post subject: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:55 pm 
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MoD is bureaucratic, bloated and indecisive, warns report ... The "bloated and dysfunctional" Ministry of Defence leaves ministers "in the dark" about key decisions, an official review will say today.

I'm aware of it, and I'm really shocked! But I'm not going to play the MSM game of rushing to publish until I've seen the speech and then read the report. Already we are gathering more clutter than enough, much of it singularly ill-informed, so it doesn't help to add to it.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:07 pm 

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 6:12 pm
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Location: LINCOLN
RAENORTH wrote:
. Already we are gathering more clutter than enough, much of it singularly ill-informed, so it doesn't help to add to it.

View full article here


I agree, lets look forward and start to offer realistic ideas about what to do.
It is clear we are up the creek, we need paddles.

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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:40 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:03 pm
Posts: 1050
Why pick on the MOD ? All the other depts are not fit for purpose either .

Actually we shouldn`t pick on whole departments , as at least one lowly minion will be a grafter . Its all of the senior civil servants grade 5 or above which need beheading .


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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:01 pm 
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Robin wrote:
Why pick on the MOD ? All the other depts are not fit for purpose either .

Actually we shouldn`t pick on whole departments , as at least one lowly minion will be a grafter . Its all of the senior civil servants grade 5 or above which need beheading .



You won't find me disagreeing in principle ... but the essence of the problem is the system in which they operate.

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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:39 am
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Meanwhile,

"Government considering disbanding Royal Marines

The GOVERNMENT is considering axing warships and helicopters and disbanding the iconic 3 Commando Brigade Royal Marines, a highly-regarded military journal has claimed.

An armed forces campaign group claimed the UK is heading for “disarmament in all but name” following reports in Jane’s Defence Weekly.

The periodical’s claims, which would have huge implications for the Westcountry, come as ministers consider more military cuts during a three-month review of spending.

The magazine says the Royal Navy’s surface fleet could be scaled back to just 12 frigates and destroyers from a 19-strong flotilla at present.

Devonport Naval Base, the base for seven Type 23 frigates, is also home to an amphibious fleet of three warships.

Jane’s also floats the prospect of abolishing 3 Commando Brigade, a move that would prove deeply unpopular in military circles."

read more
http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Governm ... story.html

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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:52 pm
Posts: 542
The best book I have read on the Ministry of Defence is 'Ministry of Defeat' by Dr Richard A E North.


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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:11 am
Posts: 892
Location: Co. Durham
Jonathan wrote:
The best book I have read on the Ministry of Defence is 'Ministry of Defeat' by Dr Richard A E North.

I agree! PDT_Armataz_01_37

I, having read it, must now save up for a copy as a reference.

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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:52 pm
Posts: 56
RoadHog wrote:
Meanwhile,

"Government considering disbanding Royal Marines

The GOVERNMENT is considering axing warships and helicopters and disbanding the iconic 3 Commando Brigade Royal Marines, a highly-regarded military journal has claimed.

An armed forces campaign group claimed the UK is heading for “disarmament in all but name” following reports in Jane’s Defence Weekly.

The periodical’s claims, which would have huge implications for the Westcountry, come as ministers consider more military cuts during a three-month review of spending.

The magazine says the Royal Navy’s surface fleet could be scaled back to just 12 frigates and destroyers from a 19-strong flotilla at present.

Devonport Naval Base, the base for seven Type 23 frigates, is also home to an amphibious fleet of three warships.

Jane’s also floats the prospect of abolishing 3 Commando Brigade, a move that would prove deeply unpopular in military circles."

read more
http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Governm ... story.html


The last Great Depression saw the last great Royal Navy mutiny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invergordon_Mutiny

Just sayin'


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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 295
It certainly sounds like "more of the same" - I haven't seen the word "solutions" used but I'm confident it's part of the inane vocabulary.

I expect to see the armed forces (and pretty much everything else) trimmed out of existence whilst the "Grade 5"s and above are left untouched or rewarded with spectacular lottery wins.

In common with most of the rest of our public servants, the almost maniacal obsession with process over delivery is strangling the purpose out of our public institutions, government departments seem almost indistinguishable from each other, pouring out vapid buzz word laden PR and busying themselves with pilates classes for the drones, difficult interior design dilemmas about upholstery colour matching and preparing aimless powerpoint slides for the next symposium at a nice hotel.

Some folk might call it peculation.

They are so out of touch that one can only look and wonder ...


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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:46 pm 
About that style of language:

I'm at the stage now with this irritating, all-pervading, contrived, formulaic, empty, plug-ugly, bullshit management speak that whenever I hear it I almost want to physically attack the person who's using it.

Of course, if it came to that I'd want to do it efficiently, effectively [redundantly], and with fully committed engagement of transformative best-practice malice aforethought focussed on producing bankable results for all in the win-win enterprise partnership. Well, for me anyway — after all, whatever anyone else might tell you, that's what their shitty little version of this life business is really all about for them. So, if that's the way they want it ... fine by me. Give it to them in spades.

Hey, there's an idea. A spade would certainly come in handy. You could take someone's head off with that. Moonrakin, I think I've found a 'solution' here.


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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1862
RE: Losing the will to live
Quote:
We go with that, but what are the problems? And here the whole damn thing falls apart. The Group is not into problem solving, but "lessons learned". Thus, they identify "conditions for success in transformations", producing a Janet & John list that comes straight out of the Common Purpose manual on how to bullshit the public.

Thus we get these headings: leadership: vision; engagement; communication; effective people; implementation; resourced; innovation (which "visibly encourages original and radical thinking, and leverages both independent expertise and internal knowledge"); honesty: "the programmes tone inspires confidence, enthusiasm and a 'sense of opportunity' while being realistic about cuts and challenges"; and benefits.

It is less a plan for a better MoD and more a plan for planning for a better MoD?


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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:34 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 295
John Archer wrote:
About that style of language:

I'm at the stage now with this irritating, all-pervading, contrived, formulaic, empty, plug-ugly, bullshit management speak that whenever I hear it I almost want to physically attack the person who's using it.

Of course, if it came to that I'd want to do it efficiently, effectively [redundantly], and with fully committed engagement of transformative best-practice malice aforethought focussed on producing bankable results for all in the win-win enterprise partnership. Well, for me anyway — after all, whatever anyone else might tell you, that's what their shitty little version of this life business is really all about for them. So, if that's the way they want it ... fine by me. Give it to them in spades.

Hey, there's an idea. A spade would certainly come in handy. You could take someone's head off with that. Moonrakin, I think I've found a 'solution' here.


IIRC in WW2 the Soviets formalised spades as infantry weapons partly due to the lack of ammunition - I daresay the MOD would issue them to aircrew as teaspoons...

It seems to me that something explosively purgative needs to be done, and not just in the MOD - who are just poster boys for the malaise in our public services - the present tactic of just woffling is patently ignored.


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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:28 pm
Posts: 11
I have to say that I agree with the commentators. The MoD isn't so much an issue as more a glaring symptom of what happens when the demands of the Armed Forces meets the will of HM Treasury.

Even if the service chiefs could stick to a plan about what they wanted, built the specification and stuck to it and then said to HMT...."there you go....we HM Forces need that"....there would still be hell to pay as HMT would play merry hell to avoid having to spend that much cash in one go.

Which is why of course we get the bizarre situation of the defence contractors claming that they can build an aircraft carrier for £500, the Armed Serivces Minister going..."Great...we'll have two please" knowing that the figures are total and utter b*****ks. The figures have to be low of course, otherwise HMT won't buy into it and then the project main gate start will never be reached.

Then, naturally, a new SoS arrives and has his ear bent by one of the 'losing serivces' as they see cash going to an 'opposition service'. So the SoS thinks about having a review.....naturally the defence contractors then go...."hang on...we're already getting steel and bits ordered.....delay us and we'll invoke the 'punishment clauses' as we still have to pay out".

Of course then the scandal erupts that the aircraft carriers, MR4A, Trident, the Crimean Campaign, SA80 and Dieppe all went wayyyyy over budget and as has been pointed out, the Ladies and Gentlement in the HoCs then demand 'something must be done' and thus SoS or the Minister for the Armed Forces makes a statement and promises things must change.

Meanwhile up the road at the Treasury....the chaps and ladies there say, "NO WAY...NO fixed budgets...NO proper phased spending for the MoD...not a chance...they can scrape along and manage as best they can'.

And that's leaving aside the level of 'leadership' displayed by both the Senior Suits and Senior Uniforms. The classic tragic example of that is of the review that was necessary after the loss of the Nimrod over Afghanistan. Naturally (leaving aside the direct criticism of senior officers) the Haddon-Caven review highlighted all the issues with procurement and specifications and the need, in reality for HMT to 'fix' the MoD budget at a proper defined 'percentage of HMG spending' to ensure kit can be paid for.

HMT, of course took one look at the review and in essence went 'yeah....but later...not just right now....we'll sort out the MoD budget in a bit'.

And of course HMG does so love to commit HM Forces on 'adventures abroad' and then gets a little nervous about the costs and equipment budgets. Which as we all know is a separate topic in itself.


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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 278
Robin wrote:
Why pick on the MOD ? All the other depts are not fit for purpose either .

Actually we shouldn`t pick on whole departments , as at least one lowly minion will be a grafter . Its all of the senior civil servants grade 5 or above which need beheading .


Quite - surely this whole business is just cover for merging our to-be-streamlined-and-more-efficiently-structured-(as-if) armed forces with the French and Germans (etc). Further surrender to the EUrinal, in other words.


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 Post subject: Re: MoD is "bloated and indecisive"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 6700
Fqem let 'em go. Anyone who's prepared to die for the EU ain't no use in British Armed Services.
Reclaiming the Nation will involve setting up Armed Services from scratch since the present organization is Not Fit For Purpose.

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