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 Post subject: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:13 am 
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It is too early to comment properly on the death of Christopher Shale, and it will be until we know how he died. If it was a heart attack, as has been claimed, then at 56, it is far too young an age to go – and one can only have sympathy for those around him. It is too late for the man himself.

However, what one can do is look at the statements made by Shale before he died, now summarised here, in the panel. This is the leaked Conservative Party strategy memo, which appeared in the Mail on Sunday.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:59 am 

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 5:33 pm
Posts: 20
I've refelcted, for some time, on the need to introduce a new piece of political terminology into the national narrative: CINO.
(pronounced, see-no?)

Meaning, Conservative In Name Only.

In the same way that TEA partiers in the States talk about, Republican in name only, RINOs.


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:09 am 
Quote:
"many of us are convinced that Cameron is not, has never been and will never be a Conservative"


It's only in the minor details that Cameron can be considered unConservative - for example, it is very unlikely that Thatcher would have continually pushed an initiative, The Big Society (no, me neither), that boasts of being inspired by Saul Alinsky. But when it comes to what is easily the most important question in politics - whether this country should be autonomous or have its laws imposed by the EU - he is following the lead of every Tory PM since Eden.

During Macmillan's premiership, Labour leader Hugh Gaitskell said, "The Tories have been indulging in their usual double talk. When they go to Brussels they show the greatest enthusiasm for political union. When they speak in the House of Commons they are most anxious to aver that there is no commitment whatever to any political union."

That was in 1962. In this country, the principal enemy of euroscepticism over the last 50 years has been the Conservative Party. And Cameron fits right in.

(What about Thatch? She campaigned as Conservative leader in 1975 against having a referendum on EEC membership, then campaigned to stay in. Ten years later, she guillotined debate on the Single European Act, the first half of two treaties that created the EU and which had largely been drafted by the man she sent to Brussels. She joined the disastrous ERM in 1990. The rebate she won in 1984 was a drop in La Manche when compared to the total cost - subscription, compliance, opportunity, etc - of EEC membership.)


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:43 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:23 am
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If I knew him, my sympathy would be extended to his family... However bizarre the circumstances of his death, or whatever his views... It is a sad thing when someone so relatively young dies...

Yes, we do not know how he died, and we may never know the truth...

However, one thing we do know...

He was behaving like a "modern tory"...

Not Glyndebourne...

..."Glaisters!"


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:18 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:27 pm
Posts: 1074
Location: Oxford, UK
We can't actually tell whether Shale meant a wetter tory party more appealing to the soft centre, pretty much in the Cameron mould. Maybe his association is full of Colonel Blimps and masons and he wants to see more PR men and social workers? Did he make it clear? Seems to me every time anybody modernises something they make it wetter, not better. Oh, well, we can't ask him now.


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:30 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 278
It looked to me as if Shale was simply going along with Camoron's intention to wipe out the 'nasty party' (aka the Tories), making a softer, cuddlier more appealing (to the sheeple) party so that the central dictatorship would have an easier time screwing the rest of us. Camoron's rock, in other words.


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:38 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:01 am
Posts: 183
A lot of commentators before the last election wanted us to all vote Tory as Call me Dave would change after into being a really Euro sceptic PM and, that we had to get rid of Brown.Well,we got rid of Brown (just),as for Camoron,he has really disappointed all of us,not that I and,many more, had any illusions about that.
It's a shame that the man died so young,we may not get to know the real reasons. He told the truth,which many of us who have been in the Tory party know,what is more,the working class members were looked down upon. This leaves a problem for the next election,like,who to vote for,not that that seems to do any good lately.
PDT_Armataz_02_11 PDT_Armataz_01_42


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:42 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:17 pm
Posts: 1384
I agree with Mosquito. It's hard to tell when he's talking about his local association and when he's talking about the Conservative party in general. The stuff about pre-2005 suggests he's concerned with the Nasty Party Image. None of what appears in The Daily Express panel suggests he has any firm ideas about policy or even that he disagreed with pre-2005 policies as a matter of principle, it's all about appearances and presentation and what they can sell easily.

My impression is that this is someone else with views on how to sell the Tory brand of washing powder, with ideas about the ads, the slogans, and the appearance of the box, and without any concerns about what's in the box and whether it works.


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:18 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:12 pm
Posts: 1441
We could argue till 'the cows come home' on this and that on the Tories, what I can say, without fear of contradiction, is that, to a man and woman of 'em, they're nothing whatsoever to do with a conservative ethos: small government, low taxes and democratic freedom of choice.
It matters little these days, which fri**in' political colour you put your X next to, it is all socialism by different shade: high taxes, bloated government, government by unelected micro-management and all in thrall to the Kleptocracy of Brussels.

Lets face it, the only thing the Tories really love is power and telling others what to do, trouble is, how does this square with their obvious EU infatuation?
They're just like ingenues beholden [and besotted] to the EU seraglio keepers.


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:32 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:36 pm
Posts: 93
Location: Edinburgh
Ravenscar wrote:
It matters little these days, which fri**in' political colour you put your X next to, it is all socialism by different shade: high taxes, bloated government, government by unelected micro-management and all in thrall to the Kleptocracy of Brussels.


Yep, In the socialist republic of Edinburgh at the last election, a ballot paper as long as your arm and there was 99 varieties of socialist including the Liberals the SNP and the Blue socialist 'Tory' party.


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:13 am 
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Ravenscar wrote:
We could argue till 'the cows come home' on this and that on the Tories, what I can say, without fear of contradiction, is that, to a man and woman of 'em, they're nothing whatsoever to do with a conservative ethos: small government, low taxes and democratic freedom of choice.
It matters little these days, which fri**in' political colour you put your X next to, it is all socialism by different shade: high taxes, bloated government, government by unelected micro-management and all in thrall to the Kleptocracy of Brussels.

Lets face it, the only thing the Tories really love is power and telling others what to do, trouble is, how does this square with their obvious EU infatuation?
They're just like ingenues beholden [and besotted] to the EU seraglio keepers.


Seconded.

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We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:00 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:28 am
Posts: 159
Location: Oslo
When I read about Shale's death yesterday and read some of his ideas regarding the Conservative brand my only reaction, and I'm very sad to say this, was "good, one less to deal with in the future!". I tried hard to think of his family and friends and RIP popped into my thoughts but all I could think was 'rot in portaloo'.

Feel free to clip this post if you think it's inappropriate.

I really am sad that these were my initial reactions but, as a close friend and ally of Cameron. he's tainted with the same brush that has redecorated the Conservative party into one that I no longer recognise and could never again vote for.


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:51 pm 
OT:

APL,

That's a rather handy name you have there.

Here's a short program that should be right up your street. I'd be very grateful if you would run it for me. Quick as you can please. Thanks. :)

EU ← 0


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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 6700
Hmm a fiftysomething family man who probably does cocaine once a year at 'Glasters' (and maybe a gram for Christmas).
That alone would be enough to trip a weakening heart, but I gather the quality has dropped markedly recently and it's being cut with all sorts of rubbish.
So this could be a heart-attack waiting to happen triggered early by cocaine.
However it could be a response to blackmail, for instance closet gayness or fraudulent contracts.
Impossible to say whether the Mail revelations and his death are 'connected' with ensuing conspiracy stuff, or whether it is a genuine piece of extreme chance.

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 Post subject: Re: A measure of the divide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:27 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:17 pm
Posts: 1384
Hmmm, I wonder what Cameron meant when he referred to him as a 'rock'? Still you can't read too much into these things and as Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

The latest is that a post mortem has declared the cause of death to be unascertained and toxicology tests are to be carried out.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011 ... logy-tests


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