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 Post subject: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:11 pm 
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Now that we are seeing the photographs of the tunnel (above), supposedly used to afford the escape of nearly 500 Taliban prisoners, it is getting a little bit difficult to believe in the story we are being told. The sheer practicalities of passing that many people through in the time claimed stretches belief to its limits and beyond.

One suspects now that the tunnel could have been for show, and the bulk of the escapees walked out of the front door. But, by whatever route they secured their freedom, the Christian Science Monitor puts its finger on it. It cites Ahmad Shah Khan Achakzai, a former member of parliament in Kandahar, who says: "It is impossible for the Taliban to get 500 men out of prison without anyone's help. I believe there are some people from the prison or the government who gave the Taliban support … It's now clear to everyone how corrupt the government is".

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:27 pm 
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RAENORTH wrote:
Now that we are seeing the photographs of the tunnel (above), supposedly used to afford the escape of nearly 500 Taliban prisoners, it is getting a little bit difficult to believe in the story we are being told. The sheer practicalities of passing that many people through in the time claimed stretches belief to its limits and beyond.
View full article here

Mackay] Just tell me this, Fletcher: what did they do with the soil?
Fletch] They dug another tunnel and put it in that.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:35 pm 
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RAENORTH wrote:
we no longer have to buy their definitions of what is topical or important. We can pursue our own agenda, defining for ourselves those issues which we believe are important. And in so doing, we make a statement, one that will eventually percolate to the politicians who are still largely slaves to the MSM. But we also weaken them. Those who set the agenda hold the power. We do not need to give them that power.
View full article here

I think this is of fundamental importance, and its force cannot have escaped the manipulators of power and information. That is why we should fear any attempt by the authorities to interfere with and control access to and content of the internet. It is the internet that has given us our power, or has, at least, wrested it from the hands of the old media. We need to beware the old dictum: History is written by the victors.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:15 pm 

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The Taliban run the prisons, everybody knows this, baksheesh paid, the lads walk out no probs, the only technicality is keeping ISAF out of the way.

Even Alexander gave up with this lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Ravenscar wrote:
The Taliban run the prisons, everybody knows this, baksheesh paid, the lads walk out no probs, the only technicality is keeping ISAF out of the way.

Even Alexander gave up with this lot.


Actually, it was the Baluchis who did for Alexander ...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/quettabalo ... 601139394/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gedrosia

Of course, Baluchistan is one of the issues rarely, if ever, discussed by the MSM ... yet if you are going to make any sense out of Afghanistan (and Pakistan) you are going to have to deal with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:28 pm 
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RAENORTH wrote:
One very common reason why the media sets the agenda is simply because it can.
and the agenda on Friday will be what?

I'll be interested in the bad news that is slid out from under a big stone, hoping that no one will notice. Any bets on the biggest story? Some unpopular cave-in with the colleagues, I expect.


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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:44 pm 

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It is interesting how the news agenda is set by the various main news organisations. Very often the two main channels BBC and ITN have very similar content. Channel 4 is often more extensive and a bit better coverage. The papers have more content, but, as you say, they put their own perspective on a story. As far as the majority of the public are concerned, I suspect they still get most of their "news" from TV. What would be interesting to know is what pressure is put on editors on what to include and what perspective to push, or do they just instinctively know what will please the people that matter to them ie their bosses.

What chance would a "maverick editor" have of surviving? Not much I would guess. But at least we now have the internet and increasing numbers of independent minded people are turning to blogs like yours for an alternative.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:54 pm 

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Thank you Richard.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:22 pm 

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Quote:
Richard said:

Of course, Baluchistan is one of the issues rarely, if ever, discussed by the MSM ... yet if you are going to make any sense out of Afghanistan (and Pakistan) you are going to have to deal with it.


Yes thank you indeed Richard, for reminding me, the British of course had problems with the Balochi too, they weren't the only ones either.
Balochistan, an enormous area of desert, scrub, desert and mountains, he [Alexander] should have taken a ship, he still had his navy/fleet but he wanted to remain with his Macedonians, what is a general without an army?
The Baluchis are nothing to do with the Pakistanis but then, what or who are the Pakistani - what a God awful mess.

Several Pakistani scholars admit that Baluchistan, geographically, is part of the Central Asian plateau rather than part of the Indo-Pak subcontinent. Here.


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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:24 am 

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I don't have any trouble believing they all went out through that tunnel. It's only a rate going in and coming out of 2 a minute going on the timeline the Taliban have given. What does demonstrate the irredeemably corrupt authorities is that the Taliban had 4 and a half hours to roam the inside of the prison releasing people from their cells and then it was another several hours before the escape was discovered. The Taliban again provide a credible enough reason - the guards were off their faces.

The way the story can be interpreted is many. Karzai can use it to keep NATO there (and keep the money coming) through a demonstrable failure of the authorities while occasionally talking tough for his local audience. The Western public can see it as how hopeless the operation in Afghanistan is but we do not appear to have a mechanism to bring it to an end. NATO Governments could go two ways - that the campaign is effectively lost so should come to a timely end, or that the campaign just hasn't got enough resources yet. I think the former will be the prevailing mood.

The problem will be what do they do for the next four years? I wouldn't be surprised if they spend it insisting success is just around the corner and then do an about face and a quick exit, rather than carefully managing a scaling down of the operations from now until then, the first step of which must be an admission of failure.


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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:19 am 
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gareth wrote:
I don't have any trouble believing they all went out through that tunnel. It's only a rate going in and coming out of 2 a minute going on the timeline the Taliban have given. What does demonstrate the irredeemably corrupt authorities is that the Taliban had 4 and a half hours to roam the inside of the prison releasing people from their cells and then it was another several hours before the escape was discovered. The Taliban again provide a credible enough reason - the guards were off their faces.

The way the story can be interpreted is many. Karzai can use it to keep NATO there (and keep the money coming) through a demonstrable failure of the authorities while occasionally talking tough for his local audience. The Western public can see it as how hopeless the operation in Afghanistan is but we do not appear to have a mechanism to bring it to an end. NATO Governments could go two ways - that the campaign is effectively lost so should come to a timely end, or that the campaign just hasn't got enough resources yet. I think the former will be the prevailing mood.

The problem will be what do they do for the next four years? I wouldn't be surprised if they spend it insisting success is just around the corner and then do an about face and a quick exit, rather than carefully managing a scaling down of the operations from now until then, the first step of which must be an admission of failure.


Close-up of the tunnel entrance here ...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/04/ ... 34x481.jpg

where are the footprints ... the smears round the edges .. the fibres from torn clothing ... blood from bumps? the scuffs and general signs of wear ... and perhaps some litter or detritus. Supposedly 500 people went down this hole.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:06 am 

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It's nothing like as big as the tunnel in the Great Escape...

I think the News of The World phone tap 'scandal' is a further story that the media push to the top of their own agenda because it appertains to them. Out here in the real world I have failed to meet anyone who gives a rat's backside.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:56 am 

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RAENORTH wrote:
Close-up of the tunnel entrance here ...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/04/ ... 34x481.jpg

where are the footprints ... the smears round the edges .. the fibres from torn clothing ... blood from bumps? the scuffs and general signs of wear ... and perhaps some litter or detritus. Supposedly 500 people went down this hole.

They apparently had no need to hurry and there is plenty of junk scattered around the room. It would though be the easiest thing in the world for a reporter to be lowered in with a camera wouldn't it and reporters are being denied access to the tunnel.

The reporting of this story is jumbled. Some reports are saying the prisoners broke out. Others that insurgents broke in. Some that the escape was discovered shortly after they got out and others that the escape was undiscovered for several hours.

I wonder what the ISAF forces in the area were doing. Walking out undetected is imo less credible then going through the tunnel but whichever way they left it still leaves the problem of an large number of men milling around in the middle of the night and large numbers of vehicle movements to get them out of the area. If security at the prison is so lax/corrupt I could imagine prisoners walking out in dribs and drabs over many weeks and then far fewer actually leaving by the tunnel. The prison authorities then have a problem of a lot more missing prisoners so say they all went through the tunnel.


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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:22 am 
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gareth wrote:
RAENORTH wrote:
Close-up of the tunnel entrance here ...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/04/ ... 34x481.jpg

where are the footprints ... the smears round the edges .. the fibres from torn clothing ... blood from bumps? the scuffs and general signs of wear ... and perhaps some litter or detritus. Supposedly 500 people went down this hole.

They apparently had no need to hurry and there is plenty of junk scattered around the room. It would though be the easiest thing in the world for a reporter to be lowered in with a camera wouldn't it and reporters are being denied access to the tunnel.

The reporting of this story is jumbled. Some reports are saying the prisoners broke out. Others that insurgents broke in. Some that the escape was discovered shortly after they got out and others that the escape was undiscovered for several hours.

I wonder what the ISAF forces in the area were doing. Walking out undetected is imo less credible then going through the tunnel but whichever way they left it still leaves the problem of an large number of men milling around in the middle of the night and large numbers of vehicle movements to get them out of the area. If security at the prison is so lax/corrupt I could imagine prisoners walking out in dribs and drabs over many weeks and then far fewer actually leaving by the tunnel. The prison authorities then have a problem of a lot more missing prisoners so say they all went through the tunnel.


The point about the junk scattered around the room is that it does not look like a scene which has been trampled by 500 people and their helpers. And there is a wicked piece of stone sticking out in the tunnel entrance shaft. I can't see all 500 or so going down and not one person banging themselves on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting the agenda
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:26 am
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Quote:
And there is a wicked piece of stone sticking out in the tunnel entrance shaft. I can't see all 500 or so going down and not one person banging themselves on it.



The guys digging the tunnel would have surely smoothed out and enlarged the opening if it was going to be used for a real escape. From my knowledge of the construction industry that looks like it was dug by only one guy and "dug" in a hurry with a pneumatic power tool to look like a tunnel when in fact it is just a hole - the other "end" was dug outside the walls and hey presto! Escape explained. I doubt any intrepid investigator has been down any crawled to the other end to prove the point somehow. If they did I think they would find they were looking at a hoax to cover up an inside job.

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