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 Post subject: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:28 am 
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The most telling moment came in an interview between Nurse and a computer-modelling scientist from NASA, presented as a general climate expert although he is only a specialist in ice studies. Asked to quantify the relative contributions of CO2 to the atmosphere by human and natural causes, his seemingly devastating reply was that 7 Ggigatons (billion tons) are emitted each year by human activity while only 1 Gigaton comes from natural sources such as the oceans.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:47 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:42 am
Posts: 412
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Luboš Motl has some fairly pointed words and colourful language about this Horizon thing too

http://motls.blogspot.com/2011/01/bbc-h ... ciety.html


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:16 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:52 pm
Posts: 542
Booker and North are better than Woodford and Bernstein.
http://www.savethebritishfilmindustry.c ... a-e-north/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzZJamfE48Q


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:30 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:42 am
Posts: 412
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Jonathan wrote:


Quoting the article above:
Dr Richard A E North is The Godfather of The Fifth Estate in the UK, or if you prefer ‘Il Padrino’.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:38 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 295
The false statement about CO2 is just another lie, they don't care - and wouldn't bother to fact check anything anyway, convinced it would seem of their own innate superiority and rightness...

I recall a "sciency" R4 magazine program a couple of years back that pivoted the entire program IIRC on the "fact" that single tank of fuel in a 4*4 car (unspecified make/model) would power "everything in an average UK home for one year". Needless to say some determined souls disagreed.

The BBC producers involved were forced into an explanation of sorts and somebody a couple of weeks later came on air to woffle about it being "entertainment" and that the actual amounts involved weren't important to the "story" or the "message"

They simply don't care about accuracy. The towering arrogance and conceit that characterises the way they push the infotainment propaganda out will hopefully be their downfall.

Anyway, I believe it would be very useful to describe the program as Emma Jay's program with Paul Nurse. Depressingly and predictably visitors to the Horizon website are directed to The Guardian to snigger at Delingpole the link being "automatically generated" too.... I do wonder how the program came to be made, who pitched who and so on - there's no script credits.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:43 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:42 am
Posts: 412
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Another key point that was fudged over in the documentary was "Mike's Nature Trick". Delingpole was the only one to question this (rightly so), yet no one else had any credible explanation as to why it was necessary to splice temperature data in with tree ring proxies.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:33 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:50 pm
Posts: 906
We can now say that the UN, EU and US policies to screw science and public opinion over non existing effects of human induced Co2 emissions and the devastating effects of the conversion of food crops into car fuels, all subsidized by tax payers money makes us, the voters and taxpayers responsible for the wild fire now triggered in North Africa, the Middle East and S.E Asia where food riots threaten the stability at the costs of human life, potential war and economic damages.

Since the BBC, Met Office and the push for Bio-fuel production is all funded with tax payer money we simply should quit paying taxes.

I.M.O this is the only way available to make a significant impact as the entire system including the EU depends on the steady flow of tax income.

People are fed up with the rising energy bills and the disconnect of our Governments wasting money, if well organized and a solid legal support this could be a successful campaign.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:05 am
Posts: 239
Simon Singh, climbing onto his high horse over the the Dellers-Nurse interview, produced 2 excellent bits of projection.

First, he says:

Quote:
I would suggest that people who take part in the climate change debate are all intelligent, honourable and reject manmade climate change, but they never possess more than two of these qualities at once.


Substitute 'embrace' for 'reject' and you have an instant portrait of the typical Warmist.

Second, addressing Dellers directly, he says:

Quote:
I think my most insightful tweet alluded to the likelihood that you suffer from the Dunning–Kruger effect (whereby unskilled people reach flawed conclusions, but are not smart enough or knowledgeable enough to realise their mistakes.)


This seems like a good character sketch of Nurse.

The other thing that bugs me about Nurse, Singh and just about every Warmist who ventures an opinion, is this bogus 'consensus' they keep trotting out. Singh takes a very broad brush

Quote:
Editors of the world’s foremost science journals, Science and Nature. The most senior science editors in UK national broadsheet newspapers. The overwhelming majority of science Nobel Laureates. All the world’s national academy’s of science. The overwhelming majority of climate scientists.


You'd think that Nurse and Singh would have enough science to realise that a consensus only carries weight if it is independently arrived at. I could poll the Korean Central News Agency, the Chinese Ministry of Culture, Vietnam's Fatherland Front, the Lao People's Revolutionary Party , and the leaders of the Shining Path and I'm sure I would get a consensus that 'Communism is good'.

In the same way, the AGW consensus is in no way independent; for financial and ideological reasons it is a consensus of the committed, but Nurse and Singh cannot see this due, perhaps, to the Dunning–Kruger effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:29 am 

Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:52 am
Posts: 225
moonrakin wrote:
.... I do wonder how the program came to be made, who pitched who and so on - there's no script credits.


Yes, I was wondering that. Given what Dr North was saying recently about how these pregrams are made - you write the script first, then look for talking heads to fill in the relevant parts - then someone must have come up with the script for this thing.

I bet it was Bob bloody Ward ...


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:17 pm
Posts: 549
Location: EU East Midlands Region of the former UK
Rick Bradford wrote:
Singh takes a very broad brush
Quote:
Editors of the world’s foremost science journals, Science and Nature. The most senior science editors in UK national broadsheet newspapers. The overwhelming majority of science Nobel Laureates. All the world’s national academy’s of science. The overwhelming majority of climate scientists.
"Overwhelming"? That's a wishful contention, not a conclusion.
Unlike Singh, I am not overwhelmed by it.
They'll be telling us the science is settled next.

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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:39 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1862
Rick Bradford wrote:
Quote:
Editors of the world’s foremost science journals, Science and Nature. The most senior science editors in UK national broadsheet newspapers. The overwhelming majority of science Nobel Laureates. All the world’s national academy’s of science. The overwhelming majority of climate scientists.


You'd think that Nurse and Singh would have enough science to realise that a consensus only carries weight if it is independently arrived at. I could poll the Korean Central News Agency, the Chinese Ministry of Culture, Vietnam's Fatherland Front, the Lao People's Revolutionary Party , and the leaders of the Shining Path and I'm sure I would get a consensus that 'Communism is good'.

In the same way, the AGW consensus is in no way independent; for financial and ideological reasons it is a consensus of the committed, but Nurse and Singh cannot see this due, perhaps, to the Dunning–Kruger effect.

On a different level the each part of the 'consensus' *is* independent but very limited - all they have done is each decided to say 'I agree with the IPCC' or similar. It doesn't add anything to the scientific argument for AGW at all. They haven't validated the science just put their reuptation behind it.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:59 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:01 am
Posts: 183
Aurelian wrote:
Rick Bradford wrote:
Singh takes a very broad brush
Quote:
Editors of the world’s foremost science journals, Science and Nature. The most senior science editors in UK national broadsheet newspapers. The overwhelming majority of science Nobel Laureates. All the world’s national academy’s of science. The overwhelming majority of climate scientists.
"Overwhelming"? That's a wishful contention, not a conclusion.
Unlike Singh, I am not overwhelmed by it.
They'll be telling us the science is settled next.

They already have told us the science is settled.
I know that I have mentioned before,along with Dr. North,the film 'V for Vendetta'.In it,the ordinary people,being fed lies and false information on the TV news,say,'do you believe all this bollox.All they needed was a leader.
That is the same phase that we are in.There's more and more people saying the same now,all we need is a true leader,then Dr.North will have his million angry people on the streets. PDT_Armataz_02_11


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 295
OT( this is slightly the wrong place), but of interest I suspect.

fwiw, a "paid for" troll outing, it would seem - at the Bishop's place in the comments:

Quote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jan/25/case-study-climate-science-integrity?showallcomments=true

Its by a certain Dana Nuccitelli, for Skeptical Science. After a while, I twigged where I had seen that name before. It was on the US Amazon reviews for the Hockey Stick Illusion, someone of identical name had given it a one star rating, here

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2HPOYRMFE ... hisHelpful

and if you go down the comment thread to james west July 24, 2010 3:58 AM PDT, and the immediately following post, you will find a caught red-handed corker.


I suppose she's at least using her own name... Having glimpsed the concerted trollery that's swollen in the last few weeks and getting 5000 hits on this Google and following a few of the links I don't think it's unreasonable to lay at least some of the trollery at the door of the organised loony left.

I don't think it's overly paranoid to view a lot of AGW boosters as being organised and acting in a planned fashion. The tone of the Horizon piece is I think, indicative of political propaganda. As I said before - who commissioned the program and who wrote the script?

The entanglement of the state broadcaster in partisan propaganda means that they are players in the game rather than just doing reportage - and must as a consequence expect some scrutiny.

/edit Kim Shillinglaw commissioned the program?


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:32 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:06 pm
Posts: 82
Slightly off-topic, but this article in the Daily Mail "Live" magazine should be required reading in every household in the country:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive ... scale.html

I would love to see Paul (I refuse to call him "Sir") Nurse try and spin this in a warmist favourable way...


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Nursery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 295
dave ward wrote:
Slightly off-topic, but this article in the Daily Mail "Live" magazine should be required reading in every household in the country:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive ... scale.html

I would love to see Paul (I refuse to call him "Sir") Nurse try and spin this in a warmist favourable way...


It would seem that this sort of thing is par for the course. Two directors of a company I worked for went to China 5 years ago to investigate manufacturing opportunities. Both returned after two weeks looking pretty ill and took a week or so off work to recover - nothing to do with boozing too much Chinese banquet brandy at all, the heavy industry places they visited there were "like Dante's Inferno"... The air pollution alone being described as so bad, "you had to think about every breath"

Somehow, I suspect things haven't improved and I don't expect the BBC to give a comprehensive report of the epic levels of pollution across the Chinese mineral processing industry - even if they were allowed anywhere near it...


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