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 Post subject: Irish thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:25 am 
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Something has been achieved. Writes Bruno Waterfield: Irish ministers are so concerned over protests that austerity plans to cut chauffeur driven cars and police outriders have been shelved to protect the government amid heightened post-EU bail-out security.The scum shall inherit the earth, and the profit shall be made by the manufacturers of bullet-proof limousines.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:40 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:50 pm
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The battle for Ireland is over. The battle for Portugal and Spain is about to begin.

I suspect that this will not be their finest hour.


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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:42 am 

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Oh dear, the poor politicians will probably be unable to walk/ cycle/ drive themselves to work any more - and mingling with the lower orders, which is of course what they have been desperately keen to do, will be ruled out for the foreseeable future!


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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Ian E wrote:
Oh dear, the poor politicians will probably be unable to walk/ cycle/ drive themselves to work any more - and mingling with the lower orders, which is of course what they have been desperately keen to do, will be ruled out for the foreseeable future!


If you look closely, you can see the tears rolling down my cheeks.

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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:08 pm 

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Damn Greenies. If these people had any chutzpah, they would topple the government still this week, instead of giving support to a budget and bailout. They deserve to go down with Brian Cowen, not in January, but right now.


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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:28 am
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He's no oil painting. PDT_Armataz_01_22


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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
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Plucky Irish felled by the twisted, self-serving logic of the eurozone


I have also read that there is a good case to say that Irelands boom was started by the vast amounts of EU money poured in during the '80 and early 90's, when the EU was determined to show how effective they could be. At one point, had the UK been receiving the same per capita aid, we could have abolished income tax!!!!!!

Maybe one day the Irish will realise just what a nightmare the EU is.


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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:09 pm 
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FU (Fed Up) wrote:
Plucky Irish felled by the twisted, self-serving logic of the eurozone


I have also read that there is a good case to say that Irelands boom was started by the vast amounts of EU money poured in during the '80 and early 90's, when the EU was determined to show how effective they could be. At one point, had the UK been receiving the same per capita aid, we could have abolished income tax!!!!!!

Maybe one day the Irish will realise just what a nightmare the EU is.


More American than EU money ...

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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:50 pm
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The Irsih bail-out has started to unravel if you believe this from the Guradian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010 ... oil-europe

There is this quote from the piece:
Quote:
Britain may be forced to join an EU bailout of Spain and Portugal after the government admitted today that it was powerless to veto an important element of the union's overall €750bn bailout package


I didn't hear Osbourne saying this today. I get the feeling he is not really on top of events.

Also:
Quote:
Olli Rehn, EU economic and monetary affairs commissioner, said: "Any talk of deconstruction of the European project is irresponsible. All member states would have been in a much more difficult situation without the European Union and its political shield. The euro is, and continues to be, the cornerstone of the European Union. It is not only a technical monetary arrangement, but it is indeed the core political project of the European Union."


They are losing control and there is no plan B. If someone doesn't take control here the UK will get dragged down with the sinking Euro. I have no faith that Dave will put the UK interest before the interest of the colleagues.


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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:17 pm
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Robertm wrote:
There is this quote from the piece:
Quote:
Britain may be forced to join an EU bailout of Spain and Portugal after the government admitted today that it was powerless to veto an important element of the union's overall €750bn bailout package


I didn't hear Osbourne saying this today. I get the feeling he is not really on top of events.

Also:
Quote:
Olli Rehn, EU economic and monetary affairs commissioner, said: "Any talk of deconstruction of the European project is irresponsible. All member states would have been in a much more difficult situation without the European Union and its political shield. The euro is, and continues to be, the cornerstone of the European Union. It is not only a technical monetary arrangement, but it is indeed the core political project of the European Union."


They are losing control and there is no plan B. If someone doesn't take control here the UK will get dragged down with the sinking Euro. I have no faith that Dave will put the UK interest before the interest of the colleagues.


I wonder if he doesn't understand what he's doing. I'd say that not wanting to be the one who first says the Titanic is colliding with an iceberg and the iceberg is going to win comes into it. There are a lot of people in government (the wider UK government) who don't want the comfort blanket of the EU taken away. The EU is definitely going to attempt to shove all the chips into the middle on this one. I think they are going to lose their (and maybe our) shirts betting on an empty hand. The government may be powerless to veto the arrangement but it isn't powerless to take its marbles and go home. Even so, I think we will be sucked in despite anything Osborne or the EU says, the Euro will collapse and we will be in a much worse position than we need be in being a part of the EU but outside the Eurozone.

It's definitely a bet. You know the iceberg is 50 yards away and can't be avoided. Do you trust what the designers said about the watertight compartments and risk fighting a losing battle working the pumps until you are drowning, or do you take to the lifeboats while there's time? Osborne claims he was agin the Euro from the word go, in which case he should have been one of the voices telling us the ship was unsafe and helping to get off it. Instead he's done the Tory thing and been against 'Europe', or some aspect of 'Europe' in a pro-'Europe' sort of way. Hague's ditty of the other day comes to mind.

Realistically, I think we'll be sucked in. The Tories don't have the bottle, apart from other considerations, the LDs are fully signed up to The Project (and generally appear to exist on another astral plane), and the Labour Party can be trusted to do what they can to wreck the country. The way they all behaved over the LT suggests the course they'll take.


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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:56 pm 
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Not O/T:

I think I'm living in an anpublished nightmare by Kafka, a tad complicated by the thought that I may soon only be able to buy my coffin-nails in brown paper packs. Strangely, when I thought I had woken up this morning my first thought was why can't I buy my fags in an absolutely plain carton so that people will think it's fish & chips. The cunning deceit could be enhanced by insisting that the manufacturers attach sachets of salt & vinegar to protect the children & ward off alligators.
Isn't it so wonderful to live in such interesting times?

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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:25 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:17 pm
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PE, I know what you mean. In the 60s I thought we lived in interesting times, technology gave hope. In the 80s and early 90s I thought we lived in interesting times, things were getting better. The last decade, all sorts of things going the wrong way and the impression of most everyone living in a fool's paradise. Currently it feels like waiting for something to happen which is venturing into uncharted waters and likely not to be pleasant or hopeful. Being ruled by superstition (CAGW and voodoo economics etc.) isn't comforting


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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:42 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
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Welcome to the bonfire of socialism.

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 Post subject: Re: The beginnings of fear
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:00 am 
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They might not even make it until the 7th of December.

= = = = =

The Republic of Ireland's two main opposition parties have called for an immediate general election after an EU-led bail-out of the country's economy.
The Labour Party and Fine Gael spoke out after the Green Party, junior partners in the governing coalition, called for an election in January.

On Monday, two independent MPs helping to prop up the coalition said they could not commit to supporting the budget unless the opposition had a hand in drafting it. Labour leader Eamon Gilmore said it was “essential that we have a new government elected as soon as possible.” Michael Lowry, one of two independents who currently prop up the government, said it was “highly unlikely” he would “support [that] budget,” indicating there should be an election before a budget was agreed. Jackie Healy Rae, independent for Kerry South, said he would “no longer support this government”, and that it was “very very unlikely” he would support the budget.

http://www2.macleans.ca/category/need-t ... ent=159480

= = = = +

Ah, but wait, there's more!

Globe and Mail
Quote:
Lost in the headlines about bailouts is the fact that the much vaunted European Financial Stability Fund is not actually funded, PDT_Armataz_01_23 which means that the Germans, French, Belgians et al will undoubtedly have to tap the sovereign debt market to cover their respective shares of the bill.



The Irish should really take their time with this. Stretching the decision making process well into Spring should just about do it.

Then we could all very well live in a euro-free world PDT_Armataz_01_37

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 Post subject: Re: Irish thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:20 am 

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If the Germans have been going to Ireland for "jurisdictional arbitrage" then surely we may assume the French and others have too. So this may have nothing to do with Irish solvency, it may be the European banking sector saving its ass.
Let's hope the Irish people fully understand the depth of the betrayal.
Since the Krone and Sterling are still floating against the Euro we should be cushioned a bit, but pity the poor krauts if they try to hang in there.

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