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 Post subject: Oh dear
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:49 pm 
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On Thursday 30 September at 6pm, I am told, New Direction – The Foundation for European Reform will be launched in the City of London. The launch will attended by Baroness Thatcher as well as the secretary of state for defence, Rt Hon Liam Fox MP; Europe minister David Lidington MP, and minister for international security strategy, Gerald Howarth MP.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Oh dear
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:39 pm 

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Well, they were going to invite you, but they thought you might be rude to Liam :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Oh dear
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:48 pm 

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I don't detect a modicum of cynicism, do I, Richard? Heaven forbid!

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 Post subject: Re: Oh dear
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:55 pm 

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Another professional windbag paid a lot of money, no doubt, for being of little bloody use to anyone. I'm sure he's a nice chap so I'll vote for a light sentence when the revolution comes. I'll definitely vote to spare him from the bullet and the piano wire.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh dear
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:04 am
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Location: Cheshire
I agree it sounds like a right old wank fest. What are they going to do? Reform the EU? Excuse me whilst I vomit. There is no reforming the EU, it is what it is, and we won't ever change it. You are either in it or not. My answer is "not". What's their's?


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 Post subject: Re: Oh dear
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Where does the think tank get its money? On whose payroll is he?

The Alliance of European Conservatives and Reformists to which it is affiliated gets E15000 for every MEP which joins. If the think tank is paid for by the AECR then ultimately he's just another taxpayer funded under-mighty noble. 'Shane's' career depends on keeping that revenue stream flowing.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh dear
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:44 am
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RAENORTH wrote:
On Thursday 30 September at 6pm, I am told, New Direction – The Foundation for European Reform will be launched in the City of London. The launch will attended by Baroness Thatcher as well as the secretary of state for defence, Rt Hon Liam Fox MP; Europe minister David Lidington MP, and minister for international security strategy, Gerald Howarth MP.

View full article here


Slightly O/T I flicked to the BBC Parliament channel on Freeview the other day, and caught the end of a program on the European Parliament. The punch line was that candidates should appear on the ballot, not under their party in their own country but under the grouping their party is affiliated to in the Parliament. They had David Campbell Bannerman pooh-pooing the whole idea, but you could just see this was another step in the Federal route, removing national parties.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh dear
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:17 pm
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Just another gesture to reinforce the belief of those hard of understanding, that the cynical twaddle the Tories dish up about 'Europe' - 'A Europe of Nations States', repatriation of powers, etc., is not utterly without substance.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh dear
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:21 am 
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comet wrote:
Just another gesture to reinforce the belief of those hard of understanding, that the cynical twaddle the Tories dish up about 'Europe' - 'A Europe of Nations States', repatriation of powers, etc., is not utterly without substance.


Indeed ... a sop to the gullible, soaking up energy and money to absolutely no effect, dissipating energies that could be spent on more productive enterprises. In many senses, this is the classic Tory "spoiler".

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 Post subject: Re: Oh dear
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:59 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
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Quote:
In many senses, this is the classic Tory "spoiler".


You can only lie so often. The Not the Tory Party lies over the EU are fast becoming worthless.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh dear
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:17 pm
Posts: 1384
FU (Fed Up) wrote:
Quote:
In many senses, this is the classic Tory "spoiler".


You can only lie so often. The Not the Tory Party lies over the EU are fast becoming worthless.


They serve a purpose and they do it quite well. They're wearing a bit thin, but are not yet completely threadbare.

Most Tories are not happy with the EU, but they don't want to vote any other way for a number of reasons, tribalism, letting Labour in, no other sensible option, but the Conservatives are distasteful too. The lies, hints and evasions create comfort with the party. Largely, they are lying to people disposed to accept the lies. When the main issue becomes the EU, as at Euro elections, the B/S is stepped up, and that's where they have to be careful not to overstep the mark - at least in the eyes of too many. It was a damned close run thing last time.

So, do you vote for a party telling soothing lies over something important, and about which you have misgivings, or do you vote for a party you absolutely can't stand, or do you vote for UKIP or the BNP, which almost certainly won't lead to someone you approve of representing you in Westminster, or do you not vote at all, or do you spoil the paper?

Now, in theory, Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition holds the government to account for its lies. The Tories sort of did that in a calculatedly disingenuous way over the LT, leading to the verbal contortions we saw from Hague and Cameron. In fact the Tory high command and the Lib-Dems and Labour were all coming from the same place on this one, it's just that the Tories had a Euro-hostile contingent to control, which the others really wouldn't have wanted to see run amuck, and they were in no position to call out the Tories as liars on this anyway. A bit of stage sword fighting and it can all be forgotten as they carry on with more or less their shared purpose.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh dear
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:31 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
Posts: 4434
Comet.

I voted UKIP at the GE and now as the disaster that the Cleggeron coalition is and will be, unfolds I feel fully vindicated.


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