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 Post subject: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:20 am 
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Britain's biggest supermarket chains are selling halal lamb and chicken without telling unsuspecting shoppers. Those stocking meat slaughtered according to Islamic law include Waitrose, Marks & Spencer, Sainsbury’s, Tesco, Somerfield and the Co-op.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:38 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:09 pm
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I posted a reply on the Mail website. I am so sick and tired if hearing about muslims. I don't want to see them, I don't want to read about them, and I don't want to hear them. If they just upped sticks and went away, I would be a very happy person. And if they took their socialist protectors with them, I would be ecstatic.


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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:53 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:11 pm
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Location: The European State of Insanity
I don't, as a rule, object to eating halal meat, though I don't particularly like the cruelty involved in halal slaughter. The fact that a muslim has said a prayer over it is irrelevant to me as long as I say my own over the meal. But, as a rule, unless I have absolutely no choice, I don't consume it.

What offends me is the lies. As is common with so much government and commercial activity today, the first thing that gets decided is the lie that will be told about it. You'll find exactly the same attitude behind "in europe but not run by europe" and selling halal meat in disguise. They lie because they know that the truth will get them in a lot of trouble. In this instance most people will be offended by the fact that their meat is halal. So, they won't label it, hoping the furore will blow over and the idiots will go back to mindless purchasing.

I don't think it will. It'll boil away in the background for months, another black mark against the "elite".

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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:01 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:09 pm
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I have personnally witnessed kosher killing, which is very similar to halal, and I can tell you it is very distressing for the animals, both dying and those waiting to die, to the slaughtermen (at least to those who I was with) and to the likes of me who expect some semblance of decency in the treatment of animals which we are about to eat. But muslims have no respect for life, whether it is human or animal. And for us to debase our values to accommodate these entities in our midst, is to debase our civilisation.


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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:02 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:42 am
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
I flew Emirates recently. All their meat is Halal, according to a sign on the plane.
I chose the vegetarian option.


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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:03 am 
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The farming program on Radio 4 in the week said that all New Zealand lamb was killed in that manner so I guess your assertion has to be true?

Do ASDA sell NZ lamb, I wonder?


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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:52 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:42 am
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
The Mail story seems to have made it into the NZ media

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industr ... halal-lamb

I was completely unaware that 70% (according to the Mail) of NZ lamb exported to the UK is Halal.
If this is pandering to UK/EU commercial pressures then it really is a bloody disgrace. But will anyone in this Rugby and Earthquake obsessed country actually give a damn?


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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:23 am 
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scrasea wrote:
The Mail story seems to have made it into the NZ media

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industr ... halal-lamb

I was completely unaware that 70% (according to the Mail) of NZ lamb exported to the UK is Halal.
If this is pandering to UK/EU commercial pressures then it really is a bloody disgrace. But will anyone in this Rugby and Earthquake obsessed country actually give a damn?


It's a big export earner ... a drop in sales could hurt them.

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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:34 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
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scrasea wrote:
The Mail story seems to have made it into the NZ media

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industr ... halal-lamb

I was completely unaware that 70% (according to the Mail) of NZ lamb exported to the UK is Halal.
If this is pandering to UK/EU commercial pressures then it really is a bloody disgrace. But will anyone in this Rugby and Earthquake obsessed country actually give a damn?

It might well be cheaper on the wholesale markets but that is not a true commercial pressure if the meat is not being labeled as halal or kosher when the consumer is buying it. People don't know what they are buying and the EU does not see it as part of their remit to ensure consumers do.

You'd think animal welfare charities and vegetarian campaigners would be far more vocal about this. Perhaps like some feminist groups they have a bit of a blind spot for Islam.


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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:12 am 

Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:49 am
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Does this mean that the person doing the killing in an abattoir has to be a Muslim and is this not in contravention of employment law? I can think of no other job apart from clerical professions that requires this and have not Christian groups been taken to task for stipulating that employees need to be Christian?
On top of this figures published the other day highlighted that Muslims make up less than 5% of the population - this is too small an amount in proportion for this level of attention - once again vociferous (and in this case aggreesive) minorities seek to change how we tink and act and challenge our beliefs and values.


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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:13 am 
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gareth wrote:
scrasea wrote:
The Mail story seems to have made it into the NZ media

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industr ... halal-lamb

I was completely unaware that 70% (according to the Mail) of NZ lamb exported to the UK is Halal.
If this is pandering to UK/EU commercial pressures then it really is a bloody disgrace. But will anyone in this Rugby and Earthquake obsessed country actually give a damn?

It might well be cheaper on the wholesale markets but that is not a true commercial pressure if the meat is not being labeled as halal or kosher when the consumer is buying it. People don't know what they are buying and the EU does not see it as part of their remit to ensure consumers do.

You'd think animal welfare charities and vegetarian campaigners would be far more vocal about this. Perhaps like some feminist groups they have a bit of a blind spot for Islam.


There is an outfit called the Humane Slaughter Society. They used to fund inspectors, who visited slaughterhouses to make sure that procedures were being followed. I had a lot of time for them ... they did a good and necessary job, keeping the trade on its toes ... more than the RSPCA ever did - all it wanted was owners to join their "Freedom Food" scam at extortionate prices, and fill in the tick-boxes. The trouble is that there is a glaring loophole in the law. The assumption has always been that the meat produced under the exemption would go to the specific communities. No one ever thought that firms would end up invoking the exemption more widely. But then, that is what happens if you concentrate the industry!

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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:40 am 
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I realise that much of this theme concerns our not being informed about slaughtering practices & the meat we eat but, my goodness, we are a bunch of bloody hypocrites,
Kosher killing has been happily accepted here since yonks; the provenance of a large part of our elite will garantee it's continuing...& I can't remember the last time I heared a complaint about kosher food or restaurants.
The yelps of double-standard disgust are probably because our Jewish citizens are assimilated whereas the Moslems are not...nor do they intend to be which is the main point; they are utterly alien & should never have been allowed in here in the first place...but that is another story in which we have to thank the machinations of our elite, which makes it something of a paradox.
Those of us who may not have had the benefit of some sea travel have never seen the 'container' ships of live animals exported from the Antipodes to the Middle East which will only accept 'live'.....deck upon deck upon deck of crowdwed sheep-pens; tens of thousands of animals making a very long sea trip....why the faux surprise from Aussies & Kiwis?....any sort of death is probably an improvement for god knows how many seasick animals.
I have no idea how these animals are 'cared-for' during this hell-trip....but you can bet your arse it's minimal.
I'm not making a big deal of this because I am old enough to recognise the hypocrisy endemic in the human condition.

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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:51 am 
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gareth wrote:
You'd think animal welfare charities and vegetarian campaigners would be far more vocal about this. Perhaps like some feminist groups they have a bit of a blind spot for Islam.


In the late 20th century women formed the core support base for animal welfare and vegetarianism. These campaigns and charities were vehicles to give women a voice and employ women so they could have financial independence and 'live it up'. Today they are not needed.

Why? We have quotas and targets for female employment. Also, the modern economy has more jobs for women than it did 30 years ago since it is female service-orientated, while male-orientated manufacturing jobs have been exported or made redundant by technology.

So it's not the feminists, its middle class women in general who give Muslims a free pass. They never really cared about the "causes" or ideology we associate them with, they were vehicles to get them independence from men so they could mess around and not have to worry about having kids.

jamesd wrote:
Does this mean that the person doing the killing in an abattoir has to be a Muslim and is this not in contravention of employment law?


Good question.

Quote:
once again vociferous (and in this case aggreesive) minorities seek to change how we tink and act and challenge our beliefs and values.


Don't underestimate the extent of voluntary conformism motivated by the desire of an individual to get into a position in society where he or she can call anyone he wants a hater and wreck their career.

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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 805
The Farm Animal Welfare Council produced two reports whose specific recommendations were ignored:

http://www.fawc.org.uk/reports/pb8347.pdf

Recommendation

201. Council considers that slaughter without pre-stunning is unacceptable and that
the Government should repeal the current exemption.

http://www.fawc.org.uk/pdf/report-090528.pdf

Recommendations

209. Slaughter of poultry without pre-stunning causes significant avoidable pain and distress.
Government should engage with the appropriate communities to ensure that avoidable pain and distress is prevented.

210. Where poultry are not insensible to pain or distress during slaughter, manipulation of wound surfaces of the neck should not take place.

I'm only eating pork and meat clearly marked pre-stunned before slaughter henceforward. When I can get pork in a batch with apple sauce and crackling (the true Brummie food - it's sublime) anywhere in the Middle East, halal and kosher slaughter methods can be done here.


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 Post subject: Re: A bloody disgrace
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 130
Excellent Richard. It will beinteresting to see the political fallout. I am sure you are aware that the humane slaaughter people-for whom I have sympathy- are quite persistent harriers of politicians but they are obviously unaware of what is going on .
This situation is common-you have to be an industry insider to kmow what is going on-another area is tax avoidance . I used to know all the dodges around the entreprenurial capital gains tax relief but if yoiu are not involved you gradually lose touch with the actuality on the ground.


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