The European Movement is getting terribly worked up about the EU Referendum Campaign, offering a line-by-line fisking of the Campaign's position statement. The trouble is that the statement is the usual identikit "euroscepticism" which shows that the authors know nothing and have learned nothing about the enemy they confront. Here is a sample:

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How does that work? They - the local elites -are already the government, and the governing class. Their public relations and media and electoral crookery already has the people under 'democratic' sedation, convinced that their government represents their interests. What does the EU on your hypothesis add to this? How do they need it? Also, if it's just the local elites doing what they already do, only a bit more easily, surely there should be more differences between the local elites? The EU would thus seem to be a logically redundant entity, unless the local elites are using it as a bogey man/whipping boy to take responsibility for their own deed, and why are they all using the same excuse?. They might as well pretend to be under the orders of the Pope.
Surely it would make more sense to argue that the EU actually represents the 'banksters'/NWO/Super-rich/ Bilderbergers etc. who use these communist bureaucrats to control the politicians of the member states to govern in their owner's interests under the false flags of their local countries, the waving of which deludes the populace that they are still free. That would explain the sameness of what is imposed. The previous actual local elites have probably been absorbed into. or displaced by, the NWO. Last year's parliamentary expenses scandal revealed that our politician's are utterly venal, fairly cheap, whorish lobbyists for hire, uninterested in their nominal function, of low ability; hacks who will do anything to secure petty personal advancement - excellent material to be traitors who happily collude in passing their countries' sovereignty to the NWO via the EU bureaucrat frontmen figleafs, and glibly deceive their people about what is going on, to the extent that either politicians or people know or care.

Yeah ... but they had these awkward things called elections, when you didn't always get a majority. Then the legislation had to go through parliament and the MPs (and Lords) didn't always do as they were told. We had checks and balances ... restraints on the power of the executive, back-bencher rebellions, whips telling the government that "the House won't stand for it". Parliament did actually mean something, and going to see your MP meant something. Now, parliament has been neutered. The executive, by contrast, has been immeasurably strengthened and works hand-in-glove with Brussels. And, as the power drained from parliament, the shysters moved in.

Richard, I accept your analysis. Of course the battle is here with our own politicians all of whom are loathed by the rank and file of UKIP.
I am interested to foresee what can happen in the next 6 months. Maybe Cameron can be tripped up by his referendum lock if there is another Treaty, such as Merkel wants,thrown up by the Euro turmoil - provided it can be shown to be a further loss of power to trigger the lock. I think we could be horrified if this referendum campaign actually got an In/Out referendum which might be impossible to win against the Brussels machine. However a referendum just on the new Treaty should be winnable as it would have been with the Lisbon Treaty.
This new campaign says it is going to put pressure on individual MPs so if a new Treaty is likely Cameron will be forced to bang on about ‘Europe’ and give our cause a bit of publicity and some MPs might even be spurred on to find a bit of backbone.

I hear what you say Richard, but I understand that we do still (just) have general elections in this country.

The problem seems to be that we have about a million bloggers and pressure groups who all want us out of the EU, many of them however, actively ridicule the UKIP for some reason.

It is easy to point out that there are conspiracies and nomenklatura type unhealthy relationships between the elites of Europe, but all of this is pointless without a focus point. I am sure that there is an awful lot that is wrong with the UKIP, but they are the only group capable of making any inroads through the ballot box. I dunno about you Richard, but I am too old to more than contemplate the alternative.

Not just for "some" reason ... try this for a start ...

http://juniusonukip.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... -from.html

Yes, Parliament used to matter when it did roughly represent the attitudes and interests of the country and was able to make policies for the country as an independent entity. The legal system was also important for securing the rights and freedoms of individuals (against government) and expressing their expectation of looking after their own affairs.

That's now dead. The old elites of 18th c. landed gentry and 19th c. merchants and factory owners, who were patriotic and felt some responsibility for 'their' people (who themselves mostly hated and strove to avoid dependency on the public purse), have very largely given place to a scum of socialist trash-administrators who seek to degrade everyone to the level of immoral chav-y trash, to have every detail of their lives controlled by them, at the expense of any remaining productive and decent people. They have perverted the legislative, administrative, legal, educational and religious systems to create a set of bloated bureaucracies to cause state dependency and cripple individual responsibility and morality in the people; and to import as many as possible of the worst foreigners to destroy any remaining sense of national identity and collective pride in the populace, which might be a basis for rejecting all this filth. It's 'Animal Farm' run as a battery farm by vicious and incompetent socialists. All the fuss from 'fake charities' and government bureaucratic sources, spread by their lefty media, about the health and feeding and compulsory medication of the population is exactly how battery farmers treat their animals. Sadly, few of the animals now want anything better.

It's not just the economic, social and intellectual elites who are to blame - although they should shoulder most of the blame for betrayal. The common people have been all too easily led into slavish and swinish ways, happily abandonning any desire to 'govern' themselves in a moral sense, and hence be worthy and capable of governing each other in a real democracy, in favour of slavery to the state apparatus, which dispenses doles of other people's money to them in return for their failure to accept the responsibilities of free men. I suspect that the ancient Greeks would have had no difficulty in characterising most of the voters in our modern democracies as mere slaves, in mind and function if not in precise legal status. They might have been surprised at the notion of letting useless slaves effectively enslave the free men to pay for their desires, instead of selling or executing them.

All this benefits not only the socialist administrator class, but also their masters, the real global elite, who find it convenient to have the world homogenised and dumbed down, ignorant and indifferent to who is profiting from farming them.

Times change, and as people change it is no longer possible to maintain the old ways of governance as people have lost understanding and desire for them and the mental or moral willingness to implement them. It is useful, however, to preserve outward forms after their inner spirit has fled. It helps to keep the populace docile. That, after all, is how the form of a monarchy survives in Britain, now like a Russian doll, containing the form of Parliamentary Lords and Commons government, containing the form of Cabinet government (perhaps now containing the form of Blair's sofa-government!) . Maybe government by national bureaucracies and politically correct special interests (which have replaced the Lords Spiritual) will also be hollowed, when no longer hallowed.

The old political and constitutional forms will be retained, not least because our repulsive politicians are used to explioting them, but the elites running them have changed. Any pretence that they are running them in the interests of the British people are ever more of a pretence. Elections don't matter beyond public relations deceit and a minor shuffling of snouts around the trough when there is no real choice - which as you know is the basic meaning of the word. It's a three headed one-party system. Whoever you vote for, broadly the same politically correct, destructive, lefty, EU approved policies will be implemented, despite the fact that most of the population may not want them. Even if UKIP, BNP or some new parties arose to greater prominence, however idealistic they might be in the beginning, they would be neutered by the real powers-that-be before they could do much to change the system. It's all a facade, a show to distract and deceive.

Thus it may be that the EU is the same as the local elites, if one accepts that these 'local' elites are no longer any more local than the parliamentary candidates parachuted in by head office against the opposition of genuinely local party members, and they will not serve genuinely local interests. They are just the elite in the sense of the scum having risen to the top of the local section of the EU-wide cesspool of political correctness for the administrative class. These self-serving placemen are worse than the holders of the old rotten boroughs as they represent more evil interests and will serve to destroy those whom they are supposed to defend. The real elite, the 'masters of the universe' are of course international and merely use such people against the long term interests of the really local people.

Well said.

The age old question: What can we do?

We can educate ourselves to the deceit and lies, be aware of the big plan to eradicate much of the human race, or boycot paying taxes and flooding the courts with impossible tasks. Maybe take to the streets and get a kettling, a beating, or shot as in Greece. Look out the window and you’d think everything is normal. That’s what people want, normality, peace, no trouble – and ‘they’ know it. The children go off to school, we grab a few things from Morrisons, then sit and tap keys, read more on deceit, lies, and add our few words. Then sit back and remember days when such knowledge was unknown, when weekends were picnics in Buttercup meadows, there was no such thing as daytime TV, and a afternoon out was watching steam trains from a good viewpoint.

Then Postie calls wearing shorts, trainers and a baseball cap with wires dangling from his ears, grumps a ‘sign ‘ere’, and shuffles off. The tax bills increase, the commodity bills increase. Reality. That’s what we do. That's what we are conditioned to do. Each serf believing he is 'someone', each believing he has a 'voice, a 'vote'. I don't remember any time my vote has been recognised as to have any effect, and I don't remember any time my MP has not returned a smarmy, polite, apologetic missive which announces nothing, and asks me to please get in touch if there is anything else she can be assistance with. The one time my vote has counted was within a club of a few hundred. Perhaps that is where government should be, on our street, in our back yard. Any bigger, and it's no longer 'ours'.

Me being stupid and all fail to see the difference between a state and a goverment. Brussels will have competance over its territory. It will have an army, represent us at all international institutions of trade etc. Probably answering my own question, but I'm guessing there will never be a treaty that will formally join the nations into one as the act of union did in 1705. The treaties will only ever deal with governmental powers?

There is much truth in your analysis Richard. However, the only party offering exit from the EU as an option (well a referendum anyway) is UKIP [as a 'rightie' I do not count the BNP]. It won't happen of course because UKIP may never even get a single MP, but neither will revolution, much as many of us would like it to. I will continue to vote for the highly imperfect UKIP and I signed Hannan's highly imperfect Pledge because these are the only ways I can have my view counted (OK - and then ignored!).

I will be quite happy to defect if anyone can offer me a better alternative!

The time to act will be obvious when it comes. Until it comes it will be inconceivable.
Take anyone in the photos of the ripping down of the Berlin Wall, ask any of them if they could have believed things would go that way just 2 years earlier.
Actually I think the financial markets will slay the euro and the EU with it.

I agree, which was my point, I don't know Mr. Bloom and he doesn't sound very nice.

However there are two caveats... I don't suppose Mr. Barroso is a nice man either and he is a real enemy who urinates on us all, and Jenius goes out of his way to criticise the UKIP, but he is also a big supporter of the EU if his posts in some other blogs would attest, which makes him unreliable at best.

Your offered reason (that one of its members gets drunk and shows his member) does not convince me that the only group that advocate withdrawal from the EU via the ballot box is not the best way to get what WE want.

Also check the author of that site. GLW can be a Royal Prat himself, though the UKIP is also shot through with them. They need to sell themselves as "The real Tory Party".

Sandy Rham suggests that UKIP should sell themselves as the Real Tory Party - how about just taking the initial, and calling themselves the T Party?

Ha ha...

Unfortunately it would probably be sanctioned by the Electoral Commission. The UKIP attempted to rename themselves "Independence" a little while back and were told that this was too generic. Not that I thought that changing the name would be any better an idea than changing the Royal Mail into Consignia a few years back.