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 Post subject: It should be recorded
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:01 pm 
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... that the last US combat formation has left Iraq. Here, the clever-dicks here are more interested in the death of that troubled spirit, David Kelly, which says something about who we are and the nature of our society.

Of course, British interest in Iraq effectively ceased the moment our troops were so ignominiously kicked out, as indeed they will be in Afghanistan in due course. Then, under the benevolent guidance of the Cleggerons, we can devote our energies to securing sexual and gender equality within the European Army – things really worth dying for.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: It should be recorded
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:08 pm 

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So. are we taking bets on how long before Iraq either descends into chaos or reverts to tyranny of one kind or other? Or both.

The Kelly people have a point. Suspicious deaths should require an inquest. A dodgy enquiry with fixed-up remit carried out by an appointee of the government is no substitute. Concealment of the evidence is unacceptable. Although I doubt there will ever be a satisfactory conclusion. By which I mean conclusive as to the facts, not satisfactory as to lots of people I don't like in jail.


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 Post subject: Re: It should be recorded
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:21 pm 
Mosquito wrote:
So. are we taking bets on how long before Iraq either descends into chaos or reverts to tyranny of one kind or other? Or both.


Quite. A multiracial\multicultural society can shape up no other way.


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 Post subject: Re: It should be recorded
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:26 pm 
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RAENORTH wrote:
... that the last US combat formation has left Iraq. Here, the clever-dicks here are more interested in the death of that troubled spirit, David Kelly, which says something about who we are and the nature of our society.

Of course, British interest in Iraq effectively ceased the moment our troops were so ignominiously kicked out, as indeed they will be in Afghanistan in due course. Then, under the benevolent guidance of the Cleggerons, we can devote our energies to securing sexual and gender equality within the European Army – things really worth dying for.

View full article here

I'm rather surprised at you. It is perfectly possible to be interested in more than one thing at a time, and the Kelly case seems relevant to the way in which our forces were sent to Iraq, and the nature of our government at the time. If at the time there had been a greater furore over Kelly's death and the subsequent inquiry, that would perhaps have said something rather more healthy 'about who we are and the nature of our society.' But better late than never.

And next maybe some attention could be given to the untimely death of Robin Cook.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be recorded
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:43 pm 
Are you saying that you dont think Kelly's death at all suspicious? Are all the medical folk who question the conclusions just political stooges or troublemakers with nothing better to do?

Alternatively, are you saying that it doesn't really matter how he died? It all seems to have, at the very least, been brushed under the carpet by Bliar et al and, if nothing else, I think it should be shown that victor's justice can be overturned by a change in government - it just might lead to a bit more honesty and/or openness in future.


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 Post subject: Re: It should be recorded
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:57 pm 
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Ian E wrote:
Are you saying that you dont think Kelly's death at all suspicious? Are all the medical folk who question the conclusions just political stooges or troublemakers with nothing better to do?

Alternatively, are you saying that it doesn't really matter how he died? It all seems to have, at the very least, been brushed under the carpet by Bliar et al and, if nothing else, I think it should be shown that victor's justice can be overturned by a change in government - it just might lead to a bit more honesty and/or openness in future.


I do think that there is far too much attention given to the circumstances under which we went to war, and far too little attention given to the conduct of the way and especially the occupation.

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 Post subject: Re: It should be recorded
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:23 pm 
Dr. North wrote: "Then, under the benevolent guidance of the Cleggerons, we can devote our energies to securing sexual and gender equality within the European Army – things really worth dying for." Yes. This bit bothers me; I've seen it coming for years.

First of all, Cleggiron isn't British; and I'd bet that, like the Millipedes, he is entirely cognisant of the ignominy of Brits being forced to serve in foreign military organisations ... for the first time in roughly 2000 years. The thought nauseates me. I am finally glad I have no children; and I hope never to witness the shame of more distant relatives being co-erced into abetting the enemy in this way!

Oh, incidentally - it is slightly on topic - I'm observing some US college classes in English Lang and Comp that are focussed around 'Popular Culture' - the kids have to discuss "society" in terms of 'class, gender, ethnicity' etc. Now, apart from this requirement that illiterates should 'run before they can walk,' I see the wrought iron classifications as being inherently divisive - because they exacerbate consciousness of, and argument about, differences. You're giving me hope the same principles will apply to the euro forces: that fighting the battles within will hasten their implosion, and so hoist them by their own petard! But then again, some of us are still waiting for that to happen to their civvy street....


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 Post subject: Re: It should be recorded
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:41 pm 
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You may well be correct, Richard, and our conduct is critical to our future ability...but, as a commenter pointed out, it is possible to consider two or more things concurrently; even I can manage two on a regular basis.
Of course there are priorities but, because one thing is absolutely critical it doesn't diminish the importance of a lesser puzzle.
It may well be that the 'disturbed' (who would not be) Dr. Kellyy's demise was self-inflicted but modern scientific methods would have no trouble establishing that as a fact. That they have not done and, politics being in essence a matter of life & death in the achievement & keeping of power, can anyone doubt that a serious boat-rocker stands in mortal danger of being terminated.
Our national humiliation in Iraq & the coming repeat performance in Afghanistan is well documented to the extent that doubt of our failure no longer exists.
That minor subject: What really happened to Dr. Kelly is still smoke & mirrors.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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