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 Post subject: Look at the timeline
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:35 pm 
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An article in The Daily Telegraph (online), headlined: "Ministers were warned that troops would die in Snatch Land Rovers", declares: "Ministers were formally warned that using Snatch Land Rovers on the frontline would cost lives years before the vehicles were withdrawn, according to previously secret documents." The copy, based on a agency report, thus continues a fictional narrative, eagerly seized upon by the Lib-Dims, which has been going on for years, about how an increasingly frustrated Army was desperately calling for better equipment, only to be rebuffed by "penny-pinching" ministers.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Look at the timeline
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:33 am 
Richard,

Wondered what you made of this post on the Wiki Leaks by Old Holborn: http://www.oldholborn.net/2010/07/devil-you-know.html

Is this selective quoting? It seems so rediculous that it could be true.

The quotes seems to suggest that the allied forces knew his position and that of Mullah Omar on more than one occasion and ineed that his future position was predictable.


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 Post subject: Re: Look at the timeline
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:32 am 
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RAENORTH wrote:
an increasingly frustrated Army was desperately calling for better equipment, only to be rebuffed by "penny-pinching" ministers.
As you point out, this is incorrect. Once again we are reminded of the real enemy. The uniformed side (as opposed to the Civil Service side)of the Minstry of Defence has only one enemy, that is government and its front line troops, at the Treasury. It fights to maintain its funding and pet projects. As anyone who has served there knows, those lower down have to fend for themselves as they are not fighting the "real" war of politics.

Just to confuse the situation, there is a secondary war being fought at a slightly lower level, and that is between the three services. The man at the front line has no chance. I think you sort of touched on this in your book.

Tell me, someone, that it has got better since I left the military, 10+ years ago? Those I keep in touch with suggest that it hasn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Look at the timeline
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:47 am 
No Richard in answer to your articles heading 'Does anyone actually care' it would seen not. I too watched the evidence and also read the transcripts through and I realised that it was the Ministers asking for the vehicles and not the other way round. Yet every report, every site, most of the families that lost soldiers seem not to understand this. Why do we have such blind faith in those high ranking in the military?


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 Post subject: Re: Look at the timeline
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:50 am 
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MissLed wrote:
No Richard in answer to your articles heading 'Does anyone actually care' it would seen not. I too watched the evidence and also read the transcripts through and I realised that it was the Ministers asking for the vehicles and not the other way round. Yet every report, every site, most of the families that lost soldiers seem not to understand this. Why do we have such blind faith in those high ranking in the military?


It is interesting ... I really don't know, other than to surmise that, as we lose faith in every other insititution of state, the military seems to be haven of stability. But it really is quite bizarre how gullible the media have become.

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 Post subject: Re: Look at the timeline
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:54 am 
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The problem is, does anyone care – do they care enough to get it right, or is everyone seemingly content that a completely distorted view of history should prevail?


The idea of politicians, and therefore the public, getting involved in army matters, or on any issue, social or scientific, rather than leaving all the decisions to the designated unaccountable expert is anathema to this class of people. They can no more easily get this view of history correct as they can global warming or the European Union. The mass media are themselves technocrats, powerful and largely unaccountable, and always claim know the facts best because they are the experts at reporting.

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 Post subject: Re: Look at the timeline
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:09 am 
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RAENORTH wrote:
It is interesting ... I really don't know, other than to surmise that, as we lose faith in every other insititution of state, the military seems to be haven of stability. But it really is quite bizarre how gullible the media have become.


I disagree. It's the same problem as all the others. The journalists went to the same schools and were drawn from the same cross-section of society as the army brass. They eat in the same restaurants, holiday in the same places, watch the same shows, live in the same towns. These people don't believe in democracy because that means asking for the opinion of a lower class of people, who, by definition, know nothing (we've all met people who say things like this). The only narrative that makes any sense to them is the self-serving one: specialist areas require specialist people. Those who possess cross-disciplinary knowledge, or who are able to apply insights from one field to another, destabilise this comfortable system. This is what Richard, you, are doing.

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