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 Post subject: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:59 am 
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It started today exactly 70 years ago ... the Battle of Britain. The day was characterised by convoy raids off North Foreland and Dover. During the night, the east coast, home counties and western Scotland were attacked. The weather was showery in the southeast and Channel, with continuous rain elsewhere.The fight that day cost the Luftwaffe four fighters. Three Hurricanes were lost, one of them from 111 Squadron, which lost a wing after hitting a bomber. Only one small ship was sunk. A train near Newhaven was attacked - the driver was killed and the guard injured.

It did not so much end in October as peter out as the Luftwaffe withdrew from daylight bombing and the winter set in. This was the battle of which Churchill declared: "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few". He was not wrong.To commemorate this unique event, I propose to do a short post and pic day by day.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:27 am 
The news on the radio talks of the battle to stop the Nazis invading. Is it unlawful to mention Germany?
I suppose it doesn't fit the approved narrative taught to the current crop of youngsters going through school.


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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:29 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
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I was just looking at that Derek ^ 2 book yesterday. :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:36 am 
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SandyRham wrote:
I was just looking at that Derek ^ 2 book yesterday. :D


It is still one of the best, in my view.

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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:00 pm
Posts: 635
This is perhaps the perfect time and place for the biggest secret of WWII to be revealed: why Operation Sealion was cancelled.

My father was (and still is, even at 88) a vast brute of a man. In the summer of 1940, he was an 18-year-old farmhand working on land at Bedhampton, near Portsmouth - land that is now forlornly buried under the M27. He proudly tells of rounding up shot-down German pilots using nothing but a. his imposing bulk b, a pitchfork and c. his only line of German: "Nicht in diesen Hosen!"

When word somehow reached Berlin that England was being defended by terrifying, 6' 6" supermen waving farm implements while shouting 'Not in these trousers!", Hitler changed his plans. In the style of King Arthur in 'The Holy Grail', he probably said: "Let's not go there, it is a silly place."

My old man still feels he missed out on a 'proper' war, being in a Reserved Occupation. Little does he know just how significant his contribution to the war effort really was!

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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Charlie wrote:
This is perhaps the perfect time and place for the biggest secret of WWII to be revealed: why Operation Sealion was cancelled.

My father was (and still is, even at 88) a vast brute of a man. In the summer of 1940, he was an 18-year-old farmhand working on land at Bedhampton, near Portsmouth - land that is now forlornly buried under the M27. He proudly tells of rounding up shot-down German pilots using nothing but a. his imposing bulk b, a pitchfork and c. his only line of German: "Nicht in diesen Hosen!"

When word somehow reached Berlin that England was being defended by terrifying, 6' 6" supermen waving farm implements while shouting 'Not in these trousers!", Hitler changed his plans. In the style of King Arthur in 'The Holy Grail', he probably said: "Let's not go there, it is a silly place."

My old man still feels he missed out on a 'proper' war, being in a Reserved Occupation. Little does he know just how significant his contribution to the war effort really was!


I am absolutely sure that every word of that is true. I don't know whether he necessarily missed that much. My old man was at Dunkirk, and was then shipped off to East Africa, as a signaller. He would never tell me anything - not a damn thing of what he had done there, but I don't think he ever fired a rifle in anger.

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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:33 pm 
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I often wonder what the poor buggers would now think of the country and society they sacrificed so much to defend…

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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:08 pm 
Standard Oil (Rockefeller) gave IG Farben of Germany the technology to produce synthetic fuels from coal and that to produce tetra-ethyl lead for octane increase so that German aircraft could have the high-performance engines necessary to fight the Battle of Britain. The bankers of Wall Street who ran this show kept it running through WW2. And btw, they financed the Communists of Russia too. Anything for profit.

So, for our finest hour, we have the bankers of Wall Street (and their bosses in London) to thank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sCpsq55 ... r_embedded


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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:08 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:21 pm
Posts: 568
Location: Hampshire
Charlie said:-
Quote:
My father was (and still is, even at 88) a vast brute of a man. In the summer of 1940, he was an 18-year-old farmhand working on land at Bedhampton, near Portsmouth - land that is now forlornly buried under the M27. He proudly tells of rounding up shot-down German pilots using nothing but a. his imposing bulk b, a pitchfork and c. his only line of German: "Nicht in diesen Hosen!"

I was at Bedhampton today funnily enough. Clearing a garage full of lovely old tools that an old boy had left after passing away, his family did not want them, just old rubbish in their eyes.
However, the reason I am adding my bit here, just where the A3M joins the M27 at Bedhampton, from the southbound roadside you can still see in the hill side north face the two craters left when a "tip-and-run" Luftwaffe bomber came over and was scared away and just dumped his cargo in the fields. After all this time they are still a poignant reminder of what a large hole they would have made in a street in Pompey.


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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:46 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:00 pm
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Blimey, Jag Driver, you've really started something now.

I called in to drop off Dad's Sunday paper (Telegraph, of course), and aked him about the craters. A lovely look crossed his eyes as he switched into nostalgia mode....followed by a furrowed brow as he searched for that memory. I then learnt about hiding under tractors as he was strafed, about the rocket batteries ('Z' force?) that were installed with much hush-hush just at the end of the farm and shook the house when they were launched half a mile away, about the German reconaissance planes that would sweep over as dots in the sky - "We're in for it tonight" was the locals' reaction. Oh, and the crime of burying '40-acre field' (there's still a Forty Acre Farm down there) under the road - all that lovely reclaimed marshland soil lost forever. And about being Portsmouth Home Guard grenade-throwing champion (not much of a competition, I would have thought, what with all the others being 50-something WW1 vets).

As I left, he was mumbling something about where the WRNS were stationed nearby (Mum rolls her eyes at this point), and heading for the desk to get his diaries.....

My generation really haven't lived.

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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Charlie wrote:
My generation really haven't lived.


Ah, but we built the peace! The schools, the hospitals, the homes fit for heroes.

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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:49 pm
Posts: 86
Out of interest where are you getting the loss statistics?

It's well established that in air combat pilots on both sides over estimate their own kills and hence in aggregate the force over estimates their effectiveness.. Of course, being the site of the battle we had a more robust source of stats but it still left the problem of how to measure an individual's performance. For example - this had a big impact on the controversy over the "big wing". The more planes in the sky the greater the over estimate.


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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:23 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:27 pm
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Location: Oxford, UK
JohnM, rest assured dedicated nutters have looked at combat reports, RAF crash site reports and Luftwaffe loss records to try and match kills to losses and claims. Most of them are kind of resolved, for the BoB, but some remain mysteries, like various crashed Luftwaffe aircraft examined by RAf intelligence which do not appear in Luftwaffe Quratermasters loss records, usually considered the ultimate accurate resource. The Narrow Margin has this sort of data, also to be found in Battle over Britain by Francis K. Mason, day by day records, names, serials, the lot. A lot of the big wing claims do remain unexplained, I know not why.


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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:20 pm 
What a wonderful series of posts!! Thank you Dr. N and all contributors [past and present .. :) ].


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 Post subject: Re: The Battle of Britain
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:47 pm
Posts: 489
Location: Lytham St Annes, Lancashire, England
Allan_Aberdeen wrote:
Standard Oil (Rockefeller) gave IG Farben of Germany the technology to produce synthetic fuels from coal and that to produce tetra-ethyl lead for octane increase so that German aircraft could have the high-performance engines necessary to fight the Battle of Britain. The bankers of Wall Street who ran this show kept it running through WW2. And btw, they financed the Communists of Russia too. Anything for profit.

So, for our finest hour, we have the bankers of Wall Street (and their bosses in London) to thank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sCpsq55 ... r_embedded


You'll be drawing down opprobrium on your head if you are not careful.


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