Change font size
It is currently Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:27 pm


Forum lockedPost a reply Page 1 of 2   [ 27 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:20 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
A bomb disposal expert was killed in a gunfight with insurgents yesterday, The Guardian tells us, using the MoD as it source.The solider from 101 Engineer Regiment (EOD), was attached to the joint force explosive ordnance disposal group, part of the counter improvised explosive device (IED) task force. He was "... part of an EOD team that was extracting from an incident when he was killed by small arms fire," said Lieutenant Colonel James Carr-Smith ...

View full article here

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:08 pm 
You are quite right about the comparison with not using remotely handled disarming devices as being akin to the WW1 practice of having soldiers charging machine guns (or perhaps even more aptly of the deliberate refusal of the British military then to provide their airmen with parachutes).

This instance of the value of remote handling is not the only relevent one. The major successes which have happened in both Afghanistan & Pakistan have been the targeting of Taliban leaders by unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) which, at 20,000 ft cannot be seen but can see. The Taliban leadership has been severely depleted thus.

Even the tribesmen themselves have adopted a cheap version of this technology. IEDs, which have killed the majority of people over the last couple of years, are remotely controlled robots, albeit the simplest sort of robot capable of only 1 action & controlled by cannibalising mobile phones.

This remote handling technology is bringing about, unnoticed by our leaders, a revolution in military capability comparable to the invention of the tank. Wars are almost always won by those who use technology best.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:54 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Cornwall
Why don't we (the UK) have the Husky or Chubby set in service? Didn't we buy a few sets some years ago for service in the Balkans? What happened to them? I believe that the Husky is in service with several other nations in Afghanistan, including the Americans. They might have saved us a few lives. You are quite right when you say that as long as there is vehicle access to the sight there is no need for a soldier to expose himself. You have also explained very well the rationale behind the idea of dismantling bombs but I still can't see why we can't just blow up a greater percentage of them rather than dismantling them.

Congratulations on all your brilliant work in pushing for vehicles such as the Mastiff and other mine-protected vehicles. Some in the British Army did not seem to like the idea of introducing them at first but now most can't praise them enough.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:49 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:30 am
Posts: 3172
Location: portugal/germany
I suppose the merits of the WW2 'flail' tank are gathering dust in the archives, if they haven't been shredded.
Sending flesh & blood out to do that job is not only disgusting; it's the ultimate obscenity!

_________________
Know thine enemy..........The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
Ronald Reagan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:57 pm 
Good post. It is insane to put a man close to an IED when alternative mechanised solutions are available. If IEDs can't be dealt with by a machine then detonate it with a bomb/grenade... anything else rather than putting a man in harms way. It's the modern day equivalent of going over the top with a pitchfork. Utter madness.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:07 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
permanentexpat wrote:
I suppose the merits of the WW2 'flail' tank are gathering dust in the archives, if they haven't been shredded.
Sending flesh & blood out to do that job is not only disgusting; it's the ultimate obscenity!


Flail tanks are not too clever - they tend to lift mines and throw them, not always exploding them. They also damage road surfaces. The mine rollers are a better option ... and although there is no single answer, there is very little excuse for putting men in harm's way!

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:50 pm 
Neil Craig wrote:
This instance of the value of remote handling is not the only relevent one. The major successes which have happened in both Afghanistan & Pakistan have been the targeting of Taliban leaders by unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) which, at 20,000 ft cannot be seen but can see. The Taliban leadership has been severely depleted thus.

Even the tribesmen themselves have adopted a cheap version of this technology. IEDs, which have killed the majority of people over the last couple of years, are remotely controlled robots, albeit the simplest sort of robot capable of only 1 action & controlled by cannibalising mobile phones.


I agree, up to a point. The drones are only as good as the intelligence that is used to target them, although they themselves can gather some of that intelligence. Otherwise they kill indiscriminately, which only turns people against you.

The IED on the other hand is designed to kill indiscriminately, which I guess just shows the asymmetric nature of the campaign.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:54 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:30 am
Posts: 3172
Location: portugal/germany
Quote:
Flail tanks are not too clever - they tend to lift mines and throw them,

.........rather as IEDs tend to do with (in pieces) flesh & bone.
But I do take your point.
The 'flail' was an answer to a pressing problem and was rarely, if I remember, employed on roads but rather in desert & relatively open country...although I would willingly trade a small stretch of road for just one human life.
In an age of total surveillance, drones, mini-guns & trips to the moon...sending some poor squaddie out to poke around with a piece of cutlery, smacks of a total disregard for one's own troops.
But then, our ruling elite has a total disregard for all our citizens, so why should it be concerned with some minor serf in uniform. Give hoi polloi an 'Armed(?) Forces Day' or two with the band playing & they'll ignore the horror. Well, that rings an ancient bell, or?

_________________
Know thine enemy..........The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
Ronald Reagan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
Posts: 4434
Once again I learn something, I have often wondered why such highly trained specialists are involved.

If all this, is about collecting forensic evidence.....then as you say it is absolute insanity!!!!!......Just blow the bloody things up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:04 am
Posts: 740
Location: Cheshire
Quote:
You are quite right about the comparison with not using remotely handled disarming devices as being akin to the WW1 practice of having soldiers charging machine guns (or perhaps even more aptly of the deliberate refusal of the British military then to provide their airmen with parachutes).


I think we are being rather unfair to the World War One generals here. After 1914, they never thought it was a good idea to send soldiers to charge machine guns. They very quickly realised that this could only be done after an artillery pounding, and the story of the war is largely how this was achieved. We remember the infamous first day of the Battle of the Somme, but that had been preceded by the biggest artillery barrage in history. It didn't work as planned, but at least they tried. From first principles, they came up with the creeping barrage, the tank, aerial reconnaissance, and the ground attack aircraft. By 1919, if the war had continued, the Germans would have faced something akin to Blitzkrieg. Compared to the dozy bastrads in charge of the army now, who take longer than the whole of the Great War to simply buy kit off the peg, the generals back then were models of flexible and innovative thinking.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:04 am
Posts: 740
Location: Cheshire
Quote:
If all this, is about collecting forensic evidence.....then as you say it is absolute insanity!!!!!......Just blow the bloody things up.


I couldn't agree more. I wonder of this has something to do with our fabled experience from Northern Ireland, where there might actually be a chance of capturing a bomb maker and bringing him to trial. Is that going to happen out in Afghanistan? No. These bloody things should be defused witha rifle grenade.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:42 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
JohnFSK wrote:
Quote:
If all this, is about collecting forensic evidence.....then as you say it is absolute insanity!!!!!......Just blow the bloody things up.


I couldn't agree more. I wonder of this has something to do with our fabled experience from Northern Ireland, where there might actually be a chance of capturing a bomb maker and bringing him to trial. Is that going to happen out in Afghanistan? No. These bloody things should be defused witha rifle grenade.


Unless you use these ...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... ry/4231116

http://www.newser.com/story/12481/laser ... -ieds.html

http://www.popsci.com/technology/articl ... ds-go-boom

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:28 am 
We have had one successful counter-insurgency campaign - Malaya. So, lets apply the lessons from that in Afghanistan.

Ally ourselves with one half the population. Use them to crush the other half. Move the population into fortified and controlled villages and towns. Hunt down the insurgents outside the urban areas. Rig the constitution so that "our" half control the country and its government. Leave.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:06 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
Vulcan99 wrote:
Move the population into fortified and controlled villages and towns ...


They were called concentration camps, I believe ... only the absence of media allowed them to get away with it.

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: A modern-day barbarity
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:47 pm 
If we are using the lessons of Malaya in Afghanistan are Taliban being paid for defecting? It worked in Malaya because the communist Chinese respect for money was greater than their recent adoption of Moaism. I doubt if the same technique will loosen the thousand year bonds of tribal islamism for longer than it takes to buy new weapons in Peshawar. It just goes to show how different each successful counter-insurgency campaign is, except for the road-building strategy of the Romans and General Wade.


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum lockedPost a reply Page 1 of 2   [ 27 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
610nm Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net