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 Post subject: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:06 pm 
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No doubt stung by the charge that he has rolled over once again on EU policy, "call me Dave" Cameron has used the opportunity of his first official visit to Berlin to talk tough on "Europe", telling Merkel that he would not support any new treaty which transferred more powers from Westminster to Brussels.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:56 pm 
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Who killed the quattro?

Total UK personal debt at the end of March 2010 stood at £1,460bn. The twelve-month growth was 0.9%. Individuals owe more than what the whole country produces in a year.

Total lending in March 2010 rose by £0.6bn; secured lending increased by £0.3bn in the month; consumer credit lending increased by £0.3bn (total lending in Jan 2008 grew by £8.4bn).

Total secured lending on dwellings at the end of March 2010 stood at £1,239bn. The twelve-month growth rate was 1.0%.

Total consumer credit lending to individuals at the end of March 2010 was £222bn. The annual growth rate of consumer credit was 0.4%.

Average household debt in the UK is ~ £8,796 (excluding mortgages). This figure increases to £18,324 if the average is based on the number of households who actually have some form of unsecured loan.

Average household debt in the UK is ~ £57,950 (including mortgages).
If you add to this the March 2010 budget report figure for public sector net debt (PSND) expected in 2014-15 (excluding financial interventions) then this figure rises to £113,742 per household.

Average owed by every UK adult is ~ £30,258 (including mortgages).


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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:16 pm 
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I think it was sensible to put down red lines; no more treaties, no UK money to fix the Euro's self inflicted problems. It was done early and politely. That is good negotiating technique, now they must firm up the red lines and stop any drift. Such straight forward talking would be a big improvement on the negotiating positions of Major, Blair or Brown, lets hope he menas it.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:19 pm 
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Julian Williams wrote:
I think it was sensible to put down red lines; no more treaties, no UK money to fix the Euro's self inflicted problems. It was done early and politely. That is good negotiating technique, now they must firm up the red lines and stop any drift. Such straight forward talking would be a big improvement on the negotiating positions of Major, Blair or Brown, lets hope he menas it.


Cameron makes a big deal about no more powers to Brussels, firmly bolting the door after the horse has bolted ... not impressive.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:25 pm 

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What more could he have done at this point?


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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:38 pm 
Dave has learned from the LibDems; sometimes the numerically weak can wield great power. The EU isn't any position to demand anything of anybody.

Hopefully what we are seeing now is the German people waking from their stupor. They have bankrolled their own subjugation by the French; while the latter has done nothing but break their own rules and took their own road.

It is going to be a long, long, hot summer in the Mediterranean. Remember what Churchill said about the soft underbelly....


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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:55 pm 
I'd be obliged if someone can set me straight. Mr Darling committed us to £8bn of a bailout to the pool (he had no choice) under the Lisbon Treaty's 'exceptional circumstance' clause. Are we still liable for this?

If we are, what exactly has Dave done? surely at some unspecified time in the future the exceptional circumstance clause can simply be invoked again and we can't do anything about it. So what have we gained from these negotiations?

If we aren't, 'Good job Dave' but how did we wriggle out of our Lisbon Treaty obligations and can we really decide what we will and won't commit to in the EU? I thought we were long past that stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:56 pm 
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Grey wrote:
What more could he have done at this point?


Little - but whose fault is that? Was that deliberate? Cameron's actions at this time are framed by an important decision he made 8-12 months ago...to withdraw a promise for a referendum on the EU Constitution. Thus he did not get a majority in Parliament at the GE due to the 'UKIP Effect'. Thus his government is compromised by Lib Dems and is in a weaker negotiating position in the EU. Thus all Cameron can do is say 'no more', while the EU rapes our financial services. Great words, but ou est le boeuf? Cameron should bring down the coalition and run for an autumn election on a stronger anti-EU mandate.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:59 am 
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Grey wrote:
What more could he have done at this point?


A declaration of solidarity and support, without the grandstanding for the domestic audience? The "colleagues" have got themselves in a mess and, while we can enjoy their discomfort, it is as well to realise that this affects us as well and that, with the shift of focus from the market, we could have not dissimilar problems with sterling.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:50 am 
Seems to be an anti conservative bias on this blog. It does no favours to balanced debate.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:24 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:27 pm
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Jonathanjd, if there is an anti-conservative bias on this blog, it is because in contrast to the Labour and Lib-Dem parties which openly support EU membership for the UK, the Conservatives have an ambivalent position. Seeming to be sceptical, but with no action to show it. Or maybe claiming to be sceptical, but secretly as keen on the EU as any of the others, we can't tell. All we do know is that whenever they have a chance to step up and actually DO something to reclaim powers from the EU, or give us a voice, they bottle it. Or as they would say, the time isn't right, this is just a little administrative change, we have to give to get, in europe but not ruled by europe, whatever the current excuse is.

This blog is not biased against the conservatives in particular. It pretty much despises all politicians, possibly due to Dr N having seen behind the curtain a little too often.

However, if you can point to any actual thing done by the conservatives to limit EU power, bring it on. Similarly if you can imagine any circumstances where the current coalition would give us any kind of referendum no matter what changes were made to Lisbon or membership rules or fiscal responsibilities, tell us about it. What are their red lines? Or are they pink lines now?


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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:33 am 
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jonathanjd wrote:
Seems to be an anti conservative bias on this blog. It does no favours to balanced debate.


For goodness sake grow up! If there is no bias ... i.e., lack of balance, there can be no "debate". By its very essence, debate emerges from imblance, the interaction between different views.

As to this blog, there is a strong pro-conservative bias here, which is why there is also a strong anti-Cameron bias.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:10 am 

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and as for debate, blog followers here just yearn for someone who will for instance explain the tory position, or indeed defend the EU as a whole, but in general they come in, carp, and don't stick around because of the amount of flak.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:15 am 
jonathanjd wrote:
Seems to be an anti conservative bias on this blog. It does no favours to balanced debate.

Dear jonathanjd,

As RAEN has pointed out, there is no anti-conservative bias on this blog. Anti-tory bias certainly, but anti-conservative, no — the current Conservative Party is conservative in name only. Or hadn't you noticed.

Furthermore, since you are apparently so concerned about "balanced debate" I take it we can assume you have contacted the BBC in that regard. We'd be awfully grateful if you would post up copies of your correspondence here.

Finally, I think good manners dictate that you should reply to Mosquito. Please do so. After all, he seems to have addressed your concerns and made some rather good points and it would be very impolite of you if you simply ignore them.

Kind regards.

Yours sincerely,
John Archer


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 Post subject: Re: Dave "talks tough" on Europe
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:22 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
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A polite JA??

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