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 Post subject: Perpetual motion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:23 pm 
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Location: Bradford
Let's see now, we have a bunch of bureaucrats officiously developing schemes to make energy more expensive, all in a bid to force us to use less in the interests of saving the planet.That, inevitably, means that an increasing number of people in low income groups cannot afford energy at all, or are forced to pay such a high proportion of their incomes on basic energy costs that they fall into the category defined as "fuel poverty".

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 Post subject: Re: Perpetual motion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:48 pm 
Economics of the madhouse


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 Post subject: Re: Perpetual motion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:49 pm 
RAENORTH wrote:
Let's see now, we have a bunch of bureaucrats officiously developing schemes to make energy more expensive, all in a bid to force us to use less in the interests of saving the planet.That, inevitably, means that an increasing number of people in low income groups cannot afford energy at all, or are forced to pay such a high proportion of their incomes on basic energy costs that they fall into the category defined as "fuel poverty".

View full article here


This is a favourite Modus Operandi of the Labour Government. Take for example the byzantine World of Tax Benefits, whereby the poorest get money to offset the high cost of living caused by Labour Government tax policies. From their statist point of view it is all to the good because they are effectively redistributing wealth according to their own diktat, which is obviously far superior to people being allowed to keep more of their own money and controlling their own lives. Cold logic, or cold dead bodies even, will not change this I'm afraid.


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 Post subject: Re: Perpetual motion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:18 pm 
And then there is the minimum wage which is a subsidy for corporate employers. Wages are kept low so we need the tax credits and all the other 'benfits' from this beneficent government.

Is the plan to move away from GMT another EU inspired harmonisation?


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 Post subject: Re: Perpetual motion PV
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:55 pm 
I had a call today from EDF. Apparently, if I install photovoltaics on my roof, EDF will buy the energy from me at 60 cents per kWh. Wow! That's thirty times what normal producers can charge on the open market (about 2 cents). The PV panels come with a 50% installation subsidy, a 25 year guarantee and a 8 year purchase price guarantee.
As it happens, I have a bloody irritating street lamp right outside my bedroom window. It's on all night but it's the ordinary sodium type.
My question is, Dr North (and others): Am I mad for not climbing on board this rackety bandwagon and signing up for these PV panels today?


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 Post subject: Re: Perpetual motion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:02 pm 
@ blokeinfrance - you would probably be mad not to climb on the bandwagon, but would you be able to live with your conscience afterwards?


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 Post subject: Re: Perpetual motion PV
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:20 pm 
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Location: Bradford
blokeinfrance wrote:
I had a call today from EDF. Apparently, if I install photovoltaics on my roof, EDF will buy the energy from me at 60 cents per kWh. Wow! That's thirty times what normal producers can charge on the open market (about 2 cents). The PV panels come with a 50% installation subsidy, a 25 year guarantee and a 8 year purchase price guarantee.
As it happens, I have a bloody irritating street lamp right outside my bedroom window. It's on all night but it's the ordinary sodium type.
My question is, Dr North (and others): Am I mad for not climbing on board this rackety bandwagon and signing up for these PV panels today?


It is too good to last - the scheme will end up costing so much that goverments will eventually be forced to rein back and cut the subsidy. People who have "invested" will be left out to dry. Unless, of course, you are one of those people who trust governments and believe this could never happen!

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 Post subject: Re: Perpetual motion PV
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:18 pm 
RAENORTH wrote:
blokeinfrance wrote:
I had a call today from EDF. Apparently, if I install photovoltaics on my roof, EDF will buy the energy from me at 60 cents per kWh. Wow! That's thirty times what normal producers can charge on the open market (about 2 cents). The PV panels come with a 50% installation subsidy, a 25 year guarantee and a 8 year purchase price guarantee.
As it happens, I have a bloody irritating street lamp right outside my bedroom window. It's on all night but it's the ordinary sodium type.
My question is, Dr North (and others): Am I mad for not climbing on board this rackety bandwagon and signing up for these PV panels today?


It is too good to last - the scheme will end up costing so much that goverments will eventually be forced to rein back and cut the subsidy. People who have "invested" will be left out to dry. Unless, of course, you are one of those people who trust governments and believe this could never happen!


Thanks for you advice. I should mention the roof near the street light does face south so it might make a bit of energy on a sunny day when I don't need the heating on anyway. To the poster concerned about my conscience or my immortal soul, be reassured: I may have missed the boat anyway because I benefited from another green wheeze too recently for me to qualify for this one. Oh the joys of France. The culture, the food, the 5,000 meddlesome tax breaks!


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 Post subject: Re: Perpetual motion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:17 am 
Our family is in receipt of family tax credit.

We pay some tax and then the state gives some of it back. Obviously there is some cost to implementing this, I used to cynically assume that there were always people who didnt claim back what they could and the state kept the difference, leaving them ahead even when you bung in the cost of admin.

I now ,even more cynically, assume that there may well be a net cost to the state in redistributing tax credits. But there are a whole group of civil servants dependant on the scheme continuing and their jobs with it - and whowill they vote for I wonder?

The obvious solution is to change tax thresholds/allowances and cut out the whole paying it in/take it out again routine. But where would that leave all those administering the credits?


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 Post subject: Re: Perpetual motion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:30 am
Posts: 825
Location: Traveling again.
In Italy there was a proposal to change the pension system, the basis of which was; everybody started paying there pension on their 22nd birthday, everybody payed the same rate, everybody received the pension on there 68 birthday, the pension would be the national average wage plus 25%,( nearly 2000 euros a month ) it was not accepted, in Italy there are more bureaucrats administering the pension than pensioners, they and the unions did not like the idea of being replaced by a computer. Postal workers can retire at 36, on 1,000 euros a month, a big no no from them, politicians after 5 years service can receive a pension up to 16,000 euros a month, school teachers have a 'special' case up to 3 times there salary as a pension, farmers and Tom and Harry and all non government workers can retire at 60 and get 300 Euros a month (minimum) but only after 40 years of contributions,they liked the idea.
The moral of the story ? if you are young and have not yet started work, go dig ditches for the government, its a golden' opportunity.


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 Post subject: Re: Perpetual motion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:23 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:52 am
Posts: 841
Ian Reid,

Unfortunately it is not only the labour party up to these tricks, for all Cameron's talk of "social justice" he will steal at least as much as the current shower. I have never believed his "social justice" crap anyway, too many respected authors have demolished it.

We now see that plans are afoot for raising $20 billion a year, this will come from subsidies paid on our energy bill, and who will be hit hardest......yes, the poorer section. It is pocket change to the politicians. And all for a myth, that of AGW.


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