Climate change: the final phase

[comet]

When the living is easy (on credit) then it is easy to be Socialist......................

Also, when the living is easy, then it is easy to feel for the fate of the polar bears and nod along with saving the planet, with the little question of paying for it pushed out of mind or cheerfully laid at the door of 'polluters' or at any rate, someone else.

[gareth]

RE: Indian media support eroding

"There is no conflict of interest," Pachauri says. "The first IPCC chairman, Prof Bert Bolin received substantial financial support from the government of Sweden for his functioning as chairman. The second chairman, Dr Robert Watson, was in the White House when he was elected chairman and then moved to the World Bank, where the bank not only paid his salary but also provided all support for his functioning."

Perhaps the difference is that Pachauri is head of a research institute which clearly benefits from talking up the "impact of climate change" – bidding for Indian government contracts on climate change issues - an institute which pays him an undisclosed salary, but one that is sufficient to support his extravagant lifestyle and his tenure in his £4.5 million house in Golf Links.

I'm not so sure there is a difference. By Pachauri's words we can damn him, and the IPCC. They plainly sell their "science" to Governments and always have. Pachauri's mistake is to believe that because he is on a par with his predecessors none of them have conflicts of interest when perhaps they all do, while the public and the media's mistake is to assume the UN is impartial.

It has taken time for the financial and political interests to materialise and they are looming ever larger. While hard science was the concern and the public was not aware what the endgame would be Bert Bolin being funded by his Government would be of little interest. Bob Watson working in the White House may have been sniffed at by a few and so to his move to the World Bank. Pachauri's vested interests are just all the more undeniable but his predecessors clearly had them - their faces fit for a reason. He who pays the piper calls the tune. That is an easy enough message to undermine the IPCC with I would think.

The IPCC are no different from a cosmetics company pimping their latest product with techno-garble and Governments lap it up. And why wouldn't they - it is not their money they are spending and it increases the amount of control they have over our lives. The Governments get what they want, scientists get funding they need and the IPCC get the plaudits and jollies they crave.

This is the scientific-technological elite capturing public policy that President Eisenhower warned of in his farewell address.

[Pericles]

O/T

Gareth concluded his contribution with these words:
"This is the scientific-technological elite capturing public policy that President Eisenhower warned of in his farewell address."

On the front page of the HT, is another story that, I think, possibly presages India's scientific-technological collapse. Learning by rote is to end.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rqH4fUbko2U/S ... ntpage.jpg

I learned multiplication tables by rote, as well as Latin declensions, as did all of us of a certain age.

Mental arithmetic is founded on knowing these tables. School leavers seem to be unable to simple sums without calculators. IMHO, another socialist ploy to fill this country with dunces, whilst the elites run circles around the underclass. India's schools presently achieve better mathematics exam results than Britain's, but look likely to lose their lead, if they use "Modern" teaching methods.

Signed,

Grumpy as hell.

[Deadline 12 March]

How can we get Dr North in amongst the pigeons:
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/ar5/Web%20versio ... %20AR5.pdf

Some clear explanations of scientific papers are here:
http://www.co2science.org/index.php

[mogmog]

Much mud being slung about on Pachauri personally and TERI's accounts. Posters here don't seem to know that TERI's accounts which are in the public domain can be accessed or sought by a very simple method - which involves writing a letter to TERI or to a variety of entities, with the applicants name and a signature at the end, too (is onlne too, but internet skills are required). They aldo don't know or don't want to reveal that they know, that it is common knlwedge and can be re-verified from records that the house in Golf Links where he lives is what is known as ancestral/inherited property (as is the case with a large number of people in India, property moves down generations). But hey, who cares, fling away.

However, it would help if Dr. North and friends would take the trouble to get their minor facts right, that would help with credibility on the major issues.

[RAENORTH]

Much mud being slung about on Pachauri personally and TERI's accounts. Posters here don't seem to know that TERI's accounts which are in the public domain can be accessed or sought by a very simple method - which involves writing a letter to TERI or to a variety of entities, with the applicants name and a signature at the end, too (is onlne too, but internet skills are required). They aldo don't know or don't want to reveal that they know, that it is common knlwedge and can be re-verified from records that the house in Golf Links where he lives is what is known as ancestral/inherited property (as is the case with a large number of people in India, property moves down generations). But hey, who cares, fling away.

However, it would help if Dr. North and friends would take the trouble to get their minor facts right, that would help with credibility on the major issues.

It is unwise to project your own ignorance on those you seek to oppose. But, if you believe what you assert to be true, then you can demonstrate your veracity by doing exactly that which you say is so easy, and posting the TERI account details here. As for Golf Links, I don't think we've made any assertions that contradict what you say ... our charge is that he lives in a house worth millions and is living the lifestyle of a millionaire, while collecting money to help relieve poverty and telling us how to live our lives. That he may or may not have inherited the house does not make Pachauri any less of a hypocrite ... or you any wiser or less irritating.

[SandyRham]

Credibility is in the eye of the beholder and it isn't Dr. North who has a problem, mogmog!

[mogmog]

On TERI accounts and finances, I can certainly point you to the various routes by which you can source them - one would be to send a written typed signed letter to TERI. Try it. Or apply using the RTI Act of India 2005 to the various Indian Government entities which hold them, too - we do have an RTI Act in India, please use it. Legitimately. But then as an applicant, you or the applicant will also submit yourself to due legal process in India, especially if you've or somebody else has already declared their own biases as well as possible requirement of clarifications for statements made that were incorrect BEFORE applying for the information.

You understand? Without the information concerned you've already made some statements. So now if and when you or I or anybody else asks for the information, which application is also a public document, you can be asked to explain WHY you made incorrect statements PRIOR to anybody else asking for the said information.

In addition, if I ask for the same information, and some other person decides that because YOU published statements about the same information, then that person and/or I and/or any 3rd party and/or the party from whom the informatuon is being sourced can co-opt you as a party interested. That would then start digging into YOUR finances and accounts, and there are taxation treaties between India and the UK you may need to read up about.

So, I shall wait for you to use due process in India to seek this information, and then seek your fiscal information. Fair enough, now start, and don't just talk on internet.

On his house - enough said, but the British media and those who then copy-paste, which is going on and on, has suffered enough lack of credibility on the subject - as on the subject of his cars (heard of CNG, anybody, as an eco-fuel much in use in this part of the world??). Getting quotes from drivers is about the level of journalism that one can expect from the tabloid press, so that's par for the course.

On not liking being told how to lead your lives, fair enough, maybe Monckton's solution of isolating and quarantining AIDS sufferers should apply to those who don't agree with climate change too. (By the way, and you don't have to answer this . . . how come Monckton is now claiming that he won a Nobel Prize?)

Have a nice day. But I would certainly suggest to you that before you throw stones at others, you make sure your own glass house is safe.

I await the next move from your side - why don't you apply for the information pertaining to TERI accounts that you keep insinuating about? A piece of paper, a name and address, a few questions, and a signature. Go for it, Dr. North, you have nothing to lose - except a few questions about your accounts in return.

[mogmog]

Further above, North Sahib, you simply can not make accusations of money laundering against a personon one post and then state that you do not have access to basic accounts pertaining to the same person on another post, without having to face not just due process of the Law in both India and the UK and maybe in the US too, but you also have to internalise and to address the issue of what exactly it is that you and your cohorts are trying to say.

Leave alone TERI accounts, even income tax returns for individuals in India can be officially sourced, if required. Property records are publicly available. The fuel that a car uses can be determined. Speak to a decent CA or lawyer in India, and see how you've entangled yourself by your own untruths?

In addition, it is so very easy to trace the route through which certain reports and interviews were planted in various Indian publications over the last few weeks, and then trace them back to source. "Using" the media is a double-edged sword and that's another aspect I would be worried about if I were you.

Yes, mistakes on climate change scenarios have been made, errors admitted, correctives underway. But what you are doing, Mr.North, is going to need to be corrected, too, and the process is underway.

I look forward to a response - and as I have already said, it starts with a simple letter asking TERI for the numbers you want. Go for it!! Just do remember to sign it?

[Julian Williams]

Further above, North Sahib, you simply can not make accusations of money laundering against a personon one post and then state that you do not have access to basic accounts pertaining to the same person on another post, without having to face not just due process of the Law in both India and the UK and maybe in the US too, but you also have to internalise and to address the issue of what exactly it is that you and your cohorts are trying to say.

The money laundering was through Teri Europe a charity registered in the UK and run by Pachauri and Ritu, this "charity" has admitted to the press that it has filed untrue accounts for Teri Europe. I do not think Richard has said Teri India is used for money laundering.

[mogmog]

All that has been written on this blog is now documented, so time to "think" about what Dr. North has written is now well past and clear. It is now facts and figures, numbers and words - and if allegations have been made about money laundering on one side while publicly admitting that accounts have not been even looked at on the other, then time for those who wrote this and further those who re-published to stand up and be counted.

Likewise, it may appear funny to some to put sub-titles on a film about Hitler, but there are laws against that, too, as well as even more against those who take this further. Glorifying the Nazis in any way whatsoever is not acceptable, and the fact that this blog and its author, Dr. North, did so, in synch with their known alliances with certain right-wing entities, lends more suspicion to the fact that something more than what appears is amiss.

[Bagua]

mogmog,

As you are insinuating that either you are Dr Pachauri or that you are his representative and privy to his business, would you do us the courtesy of identifying yourself and supplying documentation?

Further, as you claim inside information, please answer the following question which inquiring minds want to know:

Is the recent book authored by Dr RK Pachauri which details the sexual escapades of a world traveling Indian national of Pachauri's age and lifestyle autobiographical, or simply a result of pornographic fantasies by a repressed and fevered mind?

Dr Pachauri is already the laughing stock of the scientific community due to his egregious behaviour as IPCC chair, having sexed up the AR4 with activist nonsense that makes a mockery of real peer reviewed science. With the release of this soft-porn book, we see that Dr Pachauri is also a pathetic clown.

[mogmog]

I am not insinuating anything beyond my own point of view, which is at variance with the one put forth by North Sahib and friends here, which seems to be what a certain segment of the media seems to be relying on in the face of lack of alternate viewpoints. Also, I have no comments to offer on his book because I don't know about it, and I don't agree with pornography of any sort.

However, it must be stated here that on one side there is no snow available for this year's Winter Olympics in Vancouver BC:-

http://www.sltrib.com/Sports/ci_14295790

And on the other side a case is being made by North Sahib that climate change does not exist, and we who live in the shadow of the Himalyas should not bother our heads about other people and their activities even if they cause harm to us.

In addition, I am as against money laundering as anybody else, so would like to help North sahib find the truth. Seek the truth, actually, which is why I am providing information on how the accounts can be sourced. However, is allegations on money laundering have been made without any basis, then in the same way, the perpetuator needs to be told that he is not correct.

Sufficient?

[Billyquiz]

In addition, I am as against money laundering as anybody else, so would like to help North sahib find the truth. Seek the truth, actually, which is why I am providing information on how the accounts can be sourced. However, is allegations on money laundering have been made without any basis, then in the same way, the perpetuator needs to be told that he is not correct.

Sufficient?

You do know that the RTI act 2005 is only available to Indian citizens? Of course you do, otherwise you wouldn't have been so 'helpful'. As the good doctor said, why don't you (as an Indian citizen) apply for the information and then share it with us. In fact, now that you have enlightened us to the existence of the RTI act I think it only fair that you take the responsibility upon yourself to do exactly that. Surely you want to know the truth just as much as the rest of us.

PS. You wouldn't have a daughter named Ritu would you?

[mogmog]

Please do let me know what precisely North Sahib wishes to know under the RTI Act of India 2005, and I shall gladly find an Indian citizen who shall apply on his behalf, and as you are aware, the queries as well as responses are open domain.

But my point here is different - now admittedly without knowing anything about TERI's accounts, without knowing about the state of ownership of Pachauri's home, without knowing what fuel Pachauri's cars run on, without knowing pretty much anything about where he gets his clothes tailored from, all of which I can find out by making a phone call or two, or going across to TERI and talking to drivers too, all of which North Sahib and the rest of you could also have re-checked by any of multiple ways, without any empirical information and based on information gathered from here and there, mostly anecdotal - this website/blog interaction forum has chosen to go on not just character assasination, but worse.

How does that make those behind this website any better or worse than the entities they are fighting? For a moment think of me as the man in the middle, but one who knows that the mountains here are certainly melting, as well as elsewhere. (Please read reports about no snow at this year's winter Olumpics, for example . . . never mind for now the mountains in Asia.)

North Sahin is saying, oh yes (shaking my head. . . ) TERI, IPCC, Pachauri, et al, very bad people, all the inputs from them are basis incorrect facts. So what are the correct facts from here, then, you don't even have the numbers which are otherwise openly available?

How about this, then, that you have to ask me to use the RTI Act of India to find out stuff on which all of you have already passed judgement on, go for it? Why not send an email to TERI on this website, open, put the questions there, and I will see the RTI is filed? But have the grace to also say that hey, we are on opposite sides of the debate, but we may have made a mistake about your home, your cars, your clothes, and other inconsequential things? Start somewhere, be proper Englishmen and women, like my father told me were the guys who strode the world?