Climate change: the final phase

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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby Billyquiz » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:33 am

nick from darwin wrote:up your game please mogmog. first you post huge chunks of Gwynne Dyer boredom with link, and now a link to a disputed wikipedia page.

you're wasting my bandwith clicking on these garbage links.....sort yourself out or i'll be skimming over your posts in future.


mogmog is probably the reason why the scroll wheel was invented!

From the Observer/Guardian article mentioned earlier: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... scepticism

However, Miliband was adamant that the IPCC was on the right track. "It's worth saying that no doubt when the next report comes out it will suggest there have been areas where things have been happening more dramatically than the 2007 report implied," he said.

So Miliband knows NOW what the next report (due out in several years time) will say?
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby Billyquiz » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:36 am

Edmund Burke wrote:Checking out the reviewers of the IPCC fourth assessment report, I found this gentleman as one of Ireland's two representatives.

Pat Finnegan of GRIAN.

http://www.grian.ie/index.php?option=co ... &Itemid=46

I have no doubt that Mr. Finnegan, as well as being highly qualified in a relevant field is also completely impartial and objective when he comes to reviewing the relevant subject matter.


I doubt if we'll ever be able to keep activists like Finnegan out of the process but, in light of recent events, they will now be aware that everything they write will come under intense scrutiny. That should help make them a little more objective.
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby Johnny » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:49 am

Don't count the Warmists out yet. It's never been about the science - unless you mean the occult technologies of social control.

The hypothesis that CO2 plays a significant part in the Earth's climate was always highly suspect given the actual empirical evidence we can deduce, or infer, from our examinations of Earth's past history. An appeal to mathematical modeling of ideal gases in a system constrained by by considerations mostly of what can be quantified and plausibly measured bears no necessary relationship to the complex processes that result in what we term climate. People who get all excited about trend analysis and adding more algorithms into models are dumber than they can possibly imagine for believing what they're doing makes any sense at all. The people who are scamming us and have persuaded over-educated idiots to invent reasons for taxing the very air we breathe, so they can chastise us for our evil carbon footprint and make us pay indulgences to get to heaven, are a whole different matter.

IMHO, that science, the process of doing science, and the institutions of science, are carried out by scientists in an objective and rational manner in a good faith attempt to discover actual truth is a fantasy that only exists in the imagination of believers in the process of science.

This is a battle for the high ground in the imagination of the public. I do take some comfort from a Bruce Lee quote that's a favourite of mine:

"All the enemy has are images and illusions. Break the images and you destroy the enemy."
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby Edmund Burke » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:52 am

Billyquiz wrote:
Edmund Burke wrote:Checking out the reviewers of the IPCC fourth assessment report, I found this gentleman as one of Ireland's two representatives.

Pat Finnegan of GRIAN.

http://www.grian.ie/index.php?option=co ... &Itemid=46

I have no doubt that Mr. Finnegan, as well as being highly qualified in a relevant field is also completely impartial and objective when he comes to reviewing the relevant subject matter.


I doubt if we'll ever be able to keep activists like Finnegan out of the process but, in light of recent events, they will now be aware that everything they write will come under intense scrutiny. That should help make them a little more objective.


People like this are incapable of being objective. It is a religion to them.
Edmund Burke
 

Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby Dabble » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:33 am

Andrew30 on a WUWT thread alerts us to an interesting organisation whose members include the BBC and the Environment Agency:

http://www.iigcc.org/index.aspx

“The Institutional Investors Group on Climate Change (IIGCC) is a forum for collaboration on climate change for European investors. The group’s objective is to catalyse greater investment in a low carbon economy by bringing investors together to use their collective influence with companies, policymakers and investors. The group currently has over 50 members, including some of the largest pension funds and asset managers in Europe, and represents assets of around €4trillion."

"IIGCC aims to become an influential player on the investment implications of climate change. IIGCC aims to be the preferred vehicle through which Government and other initiatives such as UNEP FI, Carbon Disclosure Project and others address investors on climate change. Members of the IIGCC will thus gain from greater access to information and greater ability to influence other parties."

Members of the IIGCC include:

Baptist Union of Great Britain, BBC Pension Trust, Bedfordshire Pension Fund, BT Pension Scheme, Central Finance Board of the Methodist Church, Corporation of London Pension Fund, Environment Agency Pension Fund, Greater Manchester Pension Fund, Kent County Council, London Borough of Hounslow Pension Fund, London Borough of Islington Pension Fund, London Borough of Newham Pension Fund, London Pensions Fund Authority, Merseyside Pension Fund, Roman Catholic Diocese of Plymouth, Roman Catholic Diocese of Salford, South Yorkshire Pensions Authority, The Church Commissioners for England, The Church in Wales, The Roman Catholic Diocese of Portsmouth, United Reform Church, Universities Superannuation Scheme
West Midlands Metropolitan Authorities Pension Fund, West Yorkshire Pension Fund.
Dabble
 

Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby gareth » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:40 am

mogmog wrote:And why would that be objectionable, pray, what's new about this funding? It's up in their accounts, it's public information, and that's that.

Could you provide a link to TERI's accounts. The financial summary of their annual report doesn't count. That is simply pie charts of income and expenditure with percentages not monetary values.

For example 2008/09

Income:
1.35% Sale of publications
4.46 Income from investments
91% Project contributions
3.19% Other income

Expenditure:
39.34% Salaries
40.48% Travel and research material
3.79% Administrative expenses
6.44% Equipment
5.95% Building
4% Rental, utilities, infrastructure and maintenance
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby gareth » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:56 am

Dabble wrote:Andrew30 on a WUWT thread alerts us to an interesting organisation whose members include the BBC and the Environment Agency:

http://www.iigcc.org/index.aspx

“The Institutional Investors Group on Climate Change (IIGCC) is a forum for collaboration on climate change for European investors. The group’s objective is to catalyse greater investment in a low carbon economy by bringing investors together to use their collective influence with companies, policymakers and investors. The group currently has over 50 members, including some of the largest pension funds and asset managers in Europe, and represents assets of around €4trillion."

From IIGCC's website:
In 2005, IIGCC merged its operations with The Climate Group (TCG) to become a semi-autonomous programme within TCG, retaining its identity through the Steering Committee but with day-to-day management carried out by TCG under a Memorandum of Understanding. IIGCC has appointed a programme director in association with TCG to strengthen operational capability.


From Wikipedia concerning The Climate Group:
The Climate Group was launched in April 2004 with support from former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair and a group of 20 VIPs/CEOs. Since then, the organization has grown its membership and its activity extensively.[quantify][citation needed]

In 2007, HSBC announced that The Climate Group, along with WWF, Earthwatch, and the Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute, would be a partner in the HSBC Climate Partnership, and donated US$100 million to the group - the largest-ever single corporate philanthropic donation to the environment.[citation needed]


A further connection with Tony Blair is their joint project Breaking The Climate Deadlock.

But I thought the science was settled!

I would be somewhat concerned that institutional investors are piling into climate crap in the same way they were piling into mortgage-based securitised debt. It is also apparent that there is enough money sloshing around for a great many vanity projects to be set up for the likes of Tony Blair. Why anyone would want such a shallow, hollow and thoroughly discredited character fronting anything is beyond me. I assume his reputation abroad is far better than his reputation here.
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby permanentexpat » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:04 pm

A short one from the American Thinker:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... _from.html
Know thine enemy..........The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
Ronald Reagan.
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby Billyquiz » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:21 pm

gareth wrote:In 2007, HSBC announced that The Climate Group, along with WWF, Earthwatch, and the Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute, would be a partner in the HSBC Climate Partnership, and donated US$100 million to the group - the largest-ever single corporate philanthropic donation to the environment.[citation needed]


And Ritu Kumar (TERI-Europe) is the partner/wife of Nick Robins, Head of the Climate Change Centre of Excellence at HSBC.
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby Sean Houlihane » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:21 pm

Regarding the defense that 'there is plenty of other literature which supports these claims', this might be an acceptable approach to take in a political discussion, but in a scientific discussion it is important to maintain references so that any claims made my the IPPC report can be re-addressed in the future under different scenarios. Take the interaction of logging and rainfall on the rain-forest - Even if the original research had been correctly represented, unless the original research is used next time someone wants to work with the data (say the change in rainfall pattern is not following the assumed trend, public opinion turns on the palm-oil industry, etc.) it becomes impossible to update the position proposed by the IPPC. Rather than science, it turns into a game of chinese whispers (already the widespread quoting on blogs of out-of-context snippets is worsening this, wikipedia sourcing the IPPC rather than the original reviewed literature).

Any synthesys report which does not make correct and accurate use of VALID sources (not necessarily peer reviewed in the traditional sense, but satisfying the requirements of verification and repeatability) is junk. I'd rather have a watch with a flat battery - at least it can be relied on to be right twice a day, rather than maybe at one point in the past.

Sean
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby permanentexpat » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:40 pm

................and Bishop Hill on prosecutions:

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/
Know thine enemy..........The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
Ronald Reagan.
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby Charlie » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:41 pm

This hero of this film trailer reminds me of someone....anyone any idea?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVdD0ZxPq_g
Europe is for holidays, not for life.
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby nick from darwin » Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:01 pm

Charlie wrote:This hero of this film trailer reminds me of someone....anyone any idea?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVdD0ZxPq_g


Sorry no, Jessica Alba @ 1.57 - I am incapable of rational thought.
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby Julian Williams » Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:28 pm

A long piece on R4 at 1.00 news which had the case against AGW well put by one of Lord Lawson's team. Amazongate was mentioned. Miliband was given time to waffle after the sceptics had made their case and he was given more time than the others but he was asked penetrating questions, including whether he had confidence in Pachauri. He nailed his colours to Pachauri and the Pachauri team.

If the sceptics had been given a right to reply to Miliband his stories would have been undone.

Beginning of the final phase!
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Re: Climate change: the final phase

Postby Joe Simon » Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:48 pm

and we still don't know the source of Pachauri's money

he describes his parents as "middle-class" so he can't have inherited a lot from them

his wife is an apparatchik, so it can't be her salary

maybe he had a rich uncle, or married into a wealthy family
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