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 Post subject: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:09 pm 
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... an "in-out" referendum on the EU - according to Ben Brogan. And that, of course, is why the Boy is so reluctant to have one.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:55 pm
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David Cameron is Tony Blair v. 3.0 (Gordon Brown being 2.0). If he doesn't have an alternate EU policy - really whats the difference?

He appears to be more same old, same old, looking as tired as Gordo without ever having governed.

Even fox hunting he in all likelyhood neither can nor will deliver...

I think I'll bet 5 € that you'll have a coalition government between Gordon Brown and the Liberal Democrats (not that it matter, since all laws - except the ones expanding the police state* - are made in Brussels).

The guy wore stars-and-ring cufflinks... He's NOT going to give you a referendum or anything else PDT_Armataz_01_28

After the general election the conservertives are probably back in the EPP group - regardless of the outcome.

In fact I'll go so far as to say (in capital letters even): THERE'S NO ESTABLISHMENT POLITICIAN IN BRITISH POLITICS WHO IS ANTI EU!!!

Gordo wasn't, and neither is ol' Dave - hell even Rompuy started out a sceptic (and arch catholic Flamingan to boot), and when they came to Bongo land in Flanders they stripped their proprieties and went native.

*Police state laws seems to be the one area where our local councils are both imaginative and enterpricing

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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:17 pm 
Radio 4 9.30pm
A programme about if Britain leaves the EU.


First they ignore you
then they laugh at you
then they argue with you
then you`ve won.

Ghandi.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:05 am 
As far as the EU is concerned, the choice we have for a political party to vote for, is the same choice that Henry Ford gave a potential buyer when selecting the colour of the car.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:18 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
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Just how dumb is the Green Tosser, or more likely how well stiched up is he.....to admit this, days after re-nageing is suicidal.

And then he has the whole AGW fiasco about to land all over him....


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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:35 am 
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So on the main issues of the day - EU where he opposes referendum, economy where he is eco lunatic, Afghanistan where he wants to send more soldiers to bring the "war" to an end, Dannett - the Boy's Party could not have maneuvered itself into a more exposed fighting position for the next election if it had tried.

I believe it's possible he could make one mistake out of three, if truly incompetent two, for which we would observe frantic efforts to reposition to the right course. But playing the visionary idiot on all three? That has not happened by chance.

It's another sign that we no longer live in a democracy. We are not expected to think or have independent opinions or hold our leaders to account. We are expected to nod and agree to whatever the leaders want for whatever their interests are.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:28 am 
There is more than a hint in this statement. If Cameron says he thinks an In/Out referendum could be an Out, then that is tantamount to a threat to the EU to take him seriously and negotiate with him.

So far, since his offer to renegotiate with the EU over repatriation of powers, they have responded by threatening to rig the election against him, and create a hung Parliament. http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2009/11/cam ... clear.html

How will he respond?"


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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:12 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:24 pm
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Location: Shropshire/London
I think you miss the point here, Richard.

Try to imagine you are an EU apparatchik, and you hear the opinion expressed by a Conservative Party leader, who has recently offered to renegotiate with you as to repatriation of powers, (there are only a few months left til the next election) - that an IN/OUT referendum would lead to Britain exiting the EU.

What would be your fears? Your reaction? Your thoughts?

This is a negotiating ploy I would suggest. And potentially quite a powerful one which will exercise EU minds.

Try to see all the angles. Not just the Boy narrative you have boxed yourself in with.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:20 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 6700
I'd love to see something other than EU Boy flim-flamming to keep the sceptics down. Remember we are considering sending this guy in to bat for Britain so it's no good if he's not clearly on our side. He is aware that an Out referendum would probably win and if he had a single democratic bone in his body he would confirm non-negotiably that there would be a referendum and that he has the cojones to take Britain Out should we so desire. His poll rating would rocket leaving the rest nowhere. The EU would bluster and threaten, showing precisely why the referendum and subsequent actions are necessary.
If he cared for Britain, if he cared for his place in history then this would be the path he would be taking. Few politicians find themselves with the opportunity to win a landslide mandate so why is he not taking it?
He has a ticket for the post-democratic cozy old-boy gravy-train if he can con the tories into not acting, into trusting his continual failure to achieve results.
The country is crying out for a leader and Cameron is steadfastly refusing to acknowledge the challenge. So Tap, don't tell us what you hope he is, look at what he actually is, ignore his words and judge by actions alone.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:31 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:24 pm
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Location: Shropshire/London
Sandy that is one theory, and the only one you will find on eurosceptic blogs.

I offer an alternative, which sees that Cameron is playing a far more deadly game than such happy naivety would suggest. If open opposition to the EU stood a chance of success I am sure it would be being tried. The game is one of deniable thrusts and counter thrusts, deniable threat and counter threat, in short dirty tricks, as all sides test out their powers. Any national politician daring to declare EU withdrawal as a policy would be unlikely to live through to election day, if he was going to win.

OK Cameron might win the election on your suggested programme, but he might also not be around to witness the event. Take Pim Fortuyn as an example.

The objective must surely be to have a eurosceptic LIVING Prime Minister. I would suggest that we have a good chance of one in Cameron, but he has to play the game of power, not simply of electioneering. That as I say, is a far more deadly pastime.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:56 am 
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Quote:
The game is one of deniable thrusts and counter thrusts, deniable threat and counter threat, in short dirty tricks, as all sides test out their powers. Any national politician daring to declare EU withdrawal as a policy would be unlikely to live through to election day, if he was going to win.

OK Cameron might win the election on your suggested programme, but he might also not be around to witness the event. Take Pim Fortuyn as an example.

The objective must surely be to have a eurosceptic LIVING Prime Minister.


What is your motivation in making this widely known?

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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:25 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:24 pm
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Location: Shropshire/London
do i detect the merest hint of sarcasm?

Enoch Powell was convinced that various people were assassinated in the cause of suppressing British nationalism....Mountbatten, Neave and so on.

Power and politics on blogs are nice safe games.

It's something people don't think about.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:25 pm 
Tap wrote:
There is more than a hint in this statement. If Cameron says he thinks an In/Out referendum could be an Out, then that is tantamount to a threat to the EU to take him seriously and negotiate with him.

So far, since his offer to renegotiate with the EU over repatriation of powers, they have responded by threatening to rig the election against him, and create a hung Parliament. http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2009/11/cam ... clear.html

How will he respond?"


He`s not threatening the EU . He says he wants to stay in.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:27 pm 
Tapestry wrote:
I think you miss the point here, Richard.

Try to imagine you are an EU apparatchik, and you hear the opinion expressed by a Conservative Party leader, who has recently offered to renegotiate with you as to repatriation of powers, (there are only a few months left til the next election) - that an IN/OUT referendum would lead to Britain exiting the EU.

What would be your fears? Your reaction? Your thoughts?

This is a negotiating ploy I would suggest. And potentially quite a powerful one which will exercise EU minds.

Try to see all the angles. Not just the Boy narrative you have boxed yourself in with.


Has the spiv conveyed this message to the apparatchiks ?


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 Post subject: Re: Dave thinks we could win
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Robin1 wrote:
Tap wrote:
There is more than a hint in this statement. If Cameron says he thinks an In/Out referendum could be an Out, then that is tantamount to a threat to the EU to take him seriously and negotiate with him.

So far, since his offer to renegotiate with the EU over repatriation of powers, they have responded by threatening to rig the election against him, and create a hung Parliament. http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2009/11/cam ... clear.html

How will he respond?"


He`s not threatening the EU . He says he wants to stay in.


And he means it ... the man is a EUPHILE ... he LIKES the EU. He genuinely thinks (insofar as he is capable of thinking) membership of the EU is a good thing

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