Fighting talk

[RAENORTH]

As the Afghan conflict continues to exert its bloody effect, we have been exploring further the prospects of success of what is fashionably called a "counterinsurgency" campaign, in which the target is the people, the aim being to protect the people from the insurgents and to convince them to support the government. Although we have already looked at some of the historical background to the conflict, it seems that its roots stem not from recent history but from events spanning the last 300 years.

View full article here

[Me]

Let's not forget Pink's War while we're recounting come history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink%27s_War

[Tom]

The Story of the Malakand Field Force
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/9404

The opening paragraphs on the society and the mindset of the locals resonates rather.......

[RAENORTH]

Let's not forget Pink's War while we're recounting come history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink%27s_War

http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2 ... power.html

[therewaslight]

Great post! Still reading it.

I wonder if there is something interesting in the The Human Area Files. You'd certainly think the military and our political leaders would have looked at them already as part of the background research they did before going to war against the Pashtun and deciding to make them a feminist, democratic society.

eHRAF World Cultures is an online cross-cultural database that contains information on all aspects of cultural and social life. The annually-growing eHRAF database is unique in that the information is organized into cultures and ethnic groups and the full-text sources are subject-indexed at the paragraph level.

Whether you are interested in learning about the North American Hmong's beliefs in the causes and cures of diseases or the Pashtun's religious views, this multi-cultural database provides you with in-depth information on all aspects of cultural and social life.

The database code for the Pashtun is AU04. You need a password to access it though so I've not accessed it. As it is a company my guess is you need to demonstrate a specific research use if you're going to look at it for free, though I haven't asked.

[John Coles]

A fascinating article. I wonder whether anyone in the Foreign Office has a true awareness of Afghanistan's historical web of shifting political power.

[brian williams]

It should be recalled that Alexander the Great couldnt conquer the Afghans either, he declared victory and marched onto India. The garrisons he left behind were slaughtered and he didnt return

[therewaslight]

For some time before 1709, most of what is now known as Afghanistan was occupied by the Persians and it was the chief of the Ghilzai Pashtuns - a man by the name of Mirwais Khan Hotak – with his followers, who rose against them in Kandahar City in 1709, to establish the Hotaki dynasty. This successful uprising established the basis of the modern Afghanistan and, briefly, controlled part of Persia itself.

The red dot on this map shows the location of a high concentration of Ghilzai Pashtun in Kandahar province. Another map which I've lost marked this region, or another just outside Kandahar, "Hotaki". So presumably this is what is left of that ancient dynastic clan. Mullar Omar is from the Hotaki tribe of Pashtun, and his "revolution" began just outside Kandahar.

The Hotaki Ghilzai dynasty, however, was replaced by Ahmad Shah Durrani, who founded a rival regime, the Durrani dynasty. This established a tension between the two groups which exists to this day.

This is also a tension between a more nomadic cultural and a more settled cultural population. Nomads and agriculturalists exhibit different behaviours... you can't use one policy to manage them both.

What then followed is equally significant. At the time, the capital of a Pashtun-dominated Afghanistan was Kandahar. After the death of Ahmad Shah in 1773, he was succeeded by his son Timur Shar, a weak and inept ruler. Unable to govern effectively, and opposed by the fractious Ghilzai Pashtuns, in 1775, he moved his seat of government north to Kabul in an attempt to enlist the support of the Tajiks and other northern ethnic groups, better to control his own people.

This then sets the scene for another dynamic which resonates to this day. The traditional capital of Afghanistan is Kandahar, not Kabul. To the Ghilzai, in particular, rule from Kabul is forever associated with a Durrani ruler, using "foreigners" to impose his will.

Jigsaw beginning to fit together.

This then sets the scene for another dynamic which resonates to this day. The traditional capital of Afghanistan is Kandahar, not Kabul. To the Ghilzai, in particular, rule from Kabul is forever associated with a Durrani ruler, using "foreigners" to impose his will.

And, in what is almost a repeat of history, we have Hamid Khazai, a Durrani president, ensconced in Kabul, supported by an Afghan Army composed mainly of Tajiks. To complete the historical parallel, the fighters in the Taleban "insurgency" are primarily Ghilzai tribesmen.

Bingo!!

It was Reagan, though, who is remembered for his famous quote: "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." But the Ghilzai were there before him. And, to them, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is not "terrifying". It's fighting talk.

And the reason we are still there is because we didn't know all this? I predict the media will immediate pick up on the theme and within two weeks politicians will be making noises about "not interfering with the path of history" etc. before a pre-Christmas announcement which essentially amounts to the troops coming home. I'm sure this will happen because they didn't know who they were fighting against, and now that they do... it's logical that they'll adjust strategy accordingly.

[RAENORTH]

And the reason we are still there is because we didn't know all this? I predict the media will immediate pick up on the theme and within two weeks politicians will be making noises about "not interfering with the path of history" etc. before a pre-Christmas announcement which essentially amounts to the troops coming home. I'm sure this will happen because they didn't know who they were fighting against, and now that they do... it's logical that they'll adjust strategy accordingly.

We get there in the end ... there is a second and possibly third post to write on this - which add further layers of complexity.

Yet you have an excruciatingly superficial piece in the Telegraph today from Lt-Col Gus Fair, who writes glibly about "Afghans" and "Taleban" in Garmsir, almost in the style of cowboys and indians. From my reckoning - from extremely thin pickings - you have in that area the Ashakzai (Durrani), the Khalji (Ghilzai) and the Alakozai (Zirak branch of the Durrani/Barakzai), the Durranis being the meat in the sandwich. Lt-Col Fair, therefore, has been in the middle of a civil war, defending the Durranis against the Ghilzai/Taliban. By force of nembers (with now 4,000 US marines), they can temporarily suppress the internecine fighting, but the moment they turn their back, the fighting will resume.

See: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... th-it.html

[therewaslight]

Perhaps newspapers have House Style rules which prevent them going into detail about race or tribal identity and the reporting of links between certain behaviours with certain kinds of people?

Perhaps the sub-editors took a more detailed piece and fed it through the Telegraph Homogenization Algorithm.

Or perhaps the leaders in the field really are completely uninformed... but I do find it hard to believe they think in terms of cowboys and indians.

[nottoobrite 1]

Apart from modern weapons ( this includes mobilization ) 99.9% of Afghans live as they did hundreds of years ago, under present political policies to tame the tribes, it is like trying to empty the Atlantic Ocean with a tea cup, the only way to fight ignorance is to play on it. If David Copperfield was given $50,000,000 ( a very small price to pay ) for the illusion to end all illusions, we could all walk away.

[Daffersd]

Excellent information, I knew most of this beforehand, my feeling for what it is worth is that with the change to the rules of engagement and the concept of defending the population centres we have set up our soldiers as even bigger targets and the impact on morale is already being noted, and of course the other piece of this jigsaw will be ignored, who cares really, if it can be ignored to such a degree that a man can go on a rampage on a US military base then what hope for acknowledging it in Afghanistan...

[Old School Esq]

Here is a link to a first-hand account of the 1842 expedition: http://www.archive.org/download/narrati ... eerich.pdf

[RAENORTH]

Here is a link to a first-hand account of the 1842 expedition: http://www.archive.org/download/narrati ... eerich.pdf

Brilliant ... thanks.

[Old School Esq]

An apposite quote from the book (in respect of the image used in your original piece):

".. Dr. Brydon himself owed his life to the generosity of a native of Hindostan. His horse had been shot under him, and at the time of the utter disorganization of the force, he was making the best of his way on foot along the road, when he was accosted by an old subadar who was bleeding by the side of the path, but with one hand holding the bridle of his horse which stood beside him. "Sahib," said this noble fellow, "my hour has come : I am wounded to death and can ride no longer. You, however, still have a chance, take my horse which is now useless to me, and God send you may get into Jellalabad in safety."