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 Post subject: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:42 pm 
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... when we were interested in headlines such as "Fishermen despair at 'crippling' EU rules". There was even a time when the fishermens' plight would make the front pages of the national dailies, with tense debates in the House of Commons. And plight it is. John Buchan, a "top north-east skipper" is warning that the white fish fleet is facing its biggest crisis for 30 years and has called for urgent action to stop boats being forced out of business.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:01 pm 
Richard, never mind about the fact there may be no fishing industry left - will there be a bloody country left? Approching my 70th year, I just pray that I may have sufficient time remaining to see this country become truly independent again!


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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:11 pm 
There are many of us who want the UK to slip its bonds and become EU-free. We don't have much political power, but compared with even 10 years ago euroscepticism is mainstream. The only thing that keeps us in the EU is the inertia of a policy decided in the 1960s.

It may (I hope not) take a catastrophe to dislodge that inertia, but the policy is already hollowed out. Like the apparently relentless USSR, the EU is a shell and will crumble quicker than people realise. Then, of course, everyone will claim that they always saw the demise of the EU coming.


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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:18 pm 

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I'd say the fishing industry and the Tories' 'care' for stand as mute testimony to their inability to govern. The refusal to have a referendum must be seen as an endorsement of the current state of affairs.
The Tories need a massive spine transplant even to acknowledge our problems.

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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:22 pm 
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Nope, if previous form is a guide, they'd ask, why didn't anyone predict it?

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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:47 pm 
While we should quite rightly despair, yet again, at this "news" (well it is not really news is it, it has been going on for such a long time) you have to see the other side of the coin. While the EU is crippling us with its bureaucracy and anti-democratic means (passerelle clauses etcetera, ignoring people not to mention the detailed integral workings of the EU) they are simultaneously enraging every single interest group. Disinterest of the EU stems from it being so mindbogglingly boring and people do not care that much because "it wont affect them" but eventually it will. The Doctors (Working Time Directive), The Vets (no quarantine for EU animals anymore), Fishers (Common Fisher Policy), Farmers (CAP), Smokers (smoking ban directive), business people (red tape, red tape, red tape), bankers and so on. The EU leaves no one unaffected. Every group they touch upon become eurosceptics as a result. Name one fisher who does not hate the EU and so the story goes. While they are seeking further powers and integration they are turning away popular opinion and as such driving away the people they sought to control.

As integration increases so does the eurosceptic majority of the electorate. Euroscepticism is only in its infancy and started in proper (I think) with the Maastricht treaty and that was only in 1993. 16 years later and the country is overwhelmingly eurosceptic where majorities want the UK to withdraw. While this is most likely not going to happen with the incoming government I reckon the one in 2014 will have something different to say on the issue simply because, as said, euroscepticism will grow to unprecedented levels as more and more and more and more people are becoming aware of what it truly is. That there is more to it that just traveling without a passport.

They have one the battles but by no means have they won the war. Never.


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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:08 am 
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That there is more to it that just traveling without a passport.

That questionable advantage has been fully offset by the sheer horror of almost every form of travel...the worst being that for which you used to need your passport.
There was a time when, if you had the dosh, you strolled across the grass at Croydon to board your Imperial Airways (Now sounds like something from 'Star Wars') Handley-Page 'Hannibal' which would leisurely take you to Le Touquet for 'le weekend'....Let's not even start on the brilliant flying boats a little later &, for a time, after WW2.

Witterings:
Chin up & stick with it...I can give you a few years & never thought I would live to see either the demise of the USSR or a reunited Germany...Life is really full of surprizes & I'm confident you'll live to see the implosion of the hated EU and, like everyone else, be able to hold your head up again.

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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:23 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:52 am
Posts: 841
permantexpat,

I am also over the 70s mark and wonder if I will ever live in a free democratic Country, the sands of time are running out. I see no reason to support Cameron a.k.a. the spiv, lacking principle and any leadership qualities, to mention nothing of the fact that he does not listen except to his "yes" men. PDT_Armataz_01_19

Derek


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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:43 pm 
Fifty years or so ago Karl Popper wrote a very nice book, The Poverty of Historicism, which was an attack on marxism among other things. The central theme was that there are no laws of history and his arguments were highly convincing. At least I found them so, although it is a long time since I read it. Lovely stuff. The kind of pleasure you get watching a championship boxing match when your man pummels the sh*t out of his nasty opponent.

But that was before the EU. Now I'd say there was one worthy exception to Popper's Law :) that "there are no laws of history." And that exception is: The EU will be exterminated.

I think Popper, bless him, underestimated the power of hate and that, obviously, he had no inkling of the ever-growing strength of the coming EU's 'magnetic' field to attract it.

As they've said elsewhere and at other times, this one is inevitable. But it really is this time.

We'll phcking make sure it is.

If that's all right with you, PE? PDT_Armataz_01_18 :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:47 pm
Posts: 4434
The CFP and the never the ending nightmare it has visited on our fishing industry, perfectly encapsulates all that is wrong with the EU and as you say, the Green Tosser's refusal to do anything about it, says all we need to know about him.


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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Location: portugal/germany
Quote:
We'll phcking make sure it is.

If that's all right with you, PE?


Affirmative, John.
This simple soul knows nothing about the politics of fishing although having spent a small part of his life among fisherfolk.
My nearest experience to cranial explosion was when I realized that non-quota species of fish in an EU catch cannot be landed but must be overboarded...DEAD.
Just a small PDT_Armataz_01_35 facet of the EU's criminal, eco-unfreundlich incompetence.

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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:40 pm 
permanentexpat wrote:
Quote:
That there is more to it that just traveling without a passport.

That questionable advantage has been fully offset by the sheer horror of almost every form of travel...the worst being that for which you used to need your passport.
There was a time when, if you had the dosh, you strolled across the grass at Croydon to board your Imperial Airways (Now sounds like something from 'Star Wars') Handley-Page 'Hannibal' which would leisurely take you to Le Touquet for 'le weekend'....Let's not even start on the brilliant flying boats a little later &, for a time, after WW2.


That arch Europhile Michael O'Leary requires that "In order to ensure compliance , passengers should carry a valid passport (and visa if applicable) or government issued national identification card on all journeys." if you want to get on one of his airplanes. That includes domestic flights in the UK, so you now need a passport to travel around the UK by air using Ryanair.

In addition the Police in Scotland can now demand domestic passengers show passports. See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... ports.html

The days of that advantage might soon be coming to a close.


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 Post subject: Re: There was a time ...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:03 pm
Posts: 1050
Beleive it or not I quite envy the fishermen. At least they get some coverage about their trade.
The trouble about these issues is that once the industry is gone, its gone. No one will be fighting for the ghost of it or for what might have been . No one will be fighting for jobs that have NOT been created or generated.


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