Change font size
It is currently Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:15 am


Forum lockedPost a reply Page 1 of 2   [ 23 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:17 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
What, then, of the opposition? Surely it has managed to hit a few of the easy targets with which the government has so thoughtfully supplied it? No words of mine can adequately convey the contempt in which the Conservatives are now, rightly, held by almost everyone. I do not recall meeting anyone who thinks that David Cameron, their leader, is anything other than a careerist in the mould of Tony Blair. The most that anyone allows himself to hope is that, beneath the thin veneer of opportunism, there beats a heart of oak.

View full article here

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:30 am
Posts: 3172
Location: portugal/germany
It will come as no surprize to those kind enough to throw a passing glance at my occasional Jeremiah comments to know that Theodore Dalrymple is my favourite commenter & critic of the UK scene.
I remember his articles in 'The Spectator' when he was still practicing, mostly as a prison doctor. He was obviously more than anxious for his tenure to end so that he could live in a more 'civilized' country. His articles are now written for & copied to many journals including 'The City Journal'.
Much of his writing is cringe-making...as it should be.
It's unlikely that we're going to get our act together in the foreseeable future, so the good doctor is likely to make a good living writing about the dregs rather than living among them.

_________________
Know thine enemy..........The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
Ronald Reagan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:03 pm 
This is the best
On Gordon Brown: he is widely believed to have taken lessons in how to smile, though he has not been an apt pupil, for he now makes disconcertingly odd grimaces at inappropriate moments. He is the only leader known to me who combines dourness with frivolity.

When Blair became PM, I thought that the worst would be over after Blair, but then followed Brown, and soon in the future Cameron, ( oh my - it is the BBC). I wonder what we have done, that fate has decreed us a succession of such PMs.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:45 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
DP111 wrote:
This is the best
On Gordon Brown: he is widely believed to have taken lessons in how to smile, though he has not been an apt pupil, for he now makes disconcertingly odd grimaces at inappropriate moments. He is the only leader known to me who combines dourness with frivolity.

When Blair became PM, I thought that the worst would be over after Blair, but then followed Brown, and soon in the future Cameron, ( oh my - it is the BBC). I wonder what we have done, that fate has decreed us a succession of such PMs.


My co-editor is fond of telling us that we get the governments we deserve ... but I am not entirely convinced that we deserve what we have got.

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:07 pm 
This is not a scientific analysis, but an opinion. It is an opinion which will ensure that, if propagated, Conservatives don't win an election. The people who believe in EU federalism for certain, Labour and Lib Dem will win thanks to the propagating of such opinions.

The only party which stands against Lisbon will be kicked out of reach of power. This is cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's a kind of suicide tendency, understandable for an American with nothing to lose, but as for dear old North.....

Better to stick to the facts which he is one of the best at handling. Politics is an art, which, judging by Richard North's track record, is one which eludes him.

Faith. Art. Timing. Lying even are all part of it. If the world conformed directly to scientific and logical specification, North would be emperor of all.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:14 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:21 pm
Posts: 2323
Location: Essex
Theodore Dalrymple is a doom-monger. There are plenty of good people in this country. Every year they move to Canada, Australia, the United States... We're doomed!

_________________
"These people do steer the planet; they don't totally control it, they are trying to set up an open world government to control it."
Gold and silver thread (last post: 22/07/11).
Price 1oz coin @ APMEX: Gold $1,601 | Silver $40.01


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:43 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
Tap wrote:
This is not a scientific analysis, but an opinion. It is an opinion which will ensure that, if propagated, Conservatives don't win an election. The people who believe in EU federalism for certain, Labour and Lib Dem will win thanks to the propagating of such opinions.

The only party which stands against Lisbon will be kicked out of reach of power. This is cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's a kind of suicide tendency, understandable for an American with nothing to lose, but as for dear old North.....

Better to stick to the facts which he is one of the best at handling. Politics is an art, which, judging by Richard North's track record, is one which eludes him.

Faith. Art. Timing. Lying even are all part of it. If the world conformed directly to scientific and logical specification, North would be emperor of all.


For a Conservative party which is confronting a seriously incompetent and unpopular government, only to score around 40 percent in the polls - and take a mere 10 percent of the popular vote in the euro-elctions - is one that would not seem to me to have mastered the "art" of politics. That this is also a party that does not have the courage of its convictions (if it actually has any convictions) to set out an unequivocal policy on a referendum, and keeps playing with the mantra "we would not leave it there", is also one which would seem lacking in that same art.

A party which cannot define a credible energy policy, which has a leadership besotted with "climate change" - when public opinion is increasingly hostile to "green" measures - a party which has yet to offer a credible line on defence (or any sign that it even understands the issues), a party which until recently had as its economic policy "sharing the proceeds of growth" and failed completely to spot the banking collapse, a party which would maintain the high level of spending on overseas aid, despite the growing volume of evidence as to its damaging effects, a party that seems to think that India is on a par with China, when it comes to devising what it laughably calls a foreign policy ... a party whose shadow foreign secretary still believes we can be "in Europe and not ruled by Europe", is also one which demonstrates that it falls somewhat short of mastering the "art" of politics.

Currently, the only thing the Conservative party has going for it is that it is not the Labour party. That may be enough for it to get elected. It is not enough either to inspire confidence or give it a mandate for radical change ... not that we have any expectations of such. It requires no "art" to sit back and watch an unpopular government collapse, and then move into its place in an elevated form of "buggins turn". But that is what the Conservative party seems intent on doing. In fact, it is not "art" - it is taking the piss, a sin for which it is likely to pay dear, if not immediately, then in the not too distant future.

Locked in its Westminster bubble, the party has lost the plot - it has failed completely to read the mood of the people. Dalrymple is right - the party is held in contempt. Despite that, we will vote for it ... some of us will, but only because it is not Labour ... many more will stay at home and turn their backs completely on the political process. It will win, not because of, but in spite of what it is and has become. And then its troubles will really start. Then, it will find out what the "art" is really about ... and it won't be pretty pictures hanging on the walls of their gilded offices.

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:32 pm 
Is it really such a surprise then that 'other' parties are standing at 15% of the vote? The bipolar scene of British politics is grinding to a halt very quickly and this will only be accelerated by the Tories' refusal to hold a referendum. I think that when the GE is over, 'other' parties will have at least 10% of the seats in Westminster. Everyone is so fed-up with the lot of them.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:34 pm 
Ohh I forgot I just wanted to repeat my political forecast: The Tories wont win 2014, a coalition of UKIP, BNP and others will - this is my prediction. Once the electorate realises that the Tories are as useless as Labour they will have lost all hope.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:42 pm 
"we would not leave it there" has been advanced quite a bit. .... but no one seems interested in the more detailed statements.

yes progress is glacial, but a supertanker cannot run as fast as a torpedo boat.

the course is set towards a negotiation, a confrontation, a withdrawal maybe but savaging the captain like angry dogs will only help the competition, who want the ship to sail back in the opposite direction.

please bite more carefully in future.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:53 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
Tap wrote:
"we would not leave it there" has been advanced quite a bit. .... but no one seems interested in the more detailed statements.


Yea?

Quote:
For the moment Mr Hague has no direction to offer on the questions that remain unanswered: will there be a referendum come what may? And if there is, will it boil down to a choice between staying in the EU or pulling out altogether? His opponents insist it would, and argue that the 26 other members would refuse to renegotiate a treaty in order to keep Britain happy, leaving a Conservative government with few options.

Mr Hague will not answer the question. Until we know the fate of the treaty, it is all too hypothetical. Such talk, he says, smacks of the kind of bullying that has forced Ireland to hold a second vote after rejecting the treaty last year. "Clearly, there are quite a few uncertainties remaining. We hope we will come to a general election with the treaty unratified, of course we do ...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... wered.html

Or perhaps you mean this?

Quote:
There were signs last night of a "third-way" solution to Mr Cameron's problems. A compromise has been proposed by the Eurosceptic campaign group Open Europe for an alternative referendum on reform of the EU, even if the Lisbon Treaty is ratified.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 93986.html

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:15 pm 
The Telegraph article you mention, Ricahrd, was run on a narrative of Hague not answering the 'referendum' question.

But as I point out on my blog, a referendum is not a policy, but a device to implement a policy.

A referendum about what ?

Once you get into the detail, the referendum is a possible way forward. The key though is to define what outcome you want. Hague says that once the situation is defined vis a vis Lisbon, they are ready to respond, and set out their stall.

He altered previous statements on how they would proceed if Lisbon were not to be ratified as they reach power, but the Telegraph did not seem to notice these comments were significant. He also added to the 'we would not let matters rest there' if Lisbon is not ratified, by saying when and how the new policy would be made known, which presumes that there is one. He does answer the question. Why buy into Telegraph narratives? Read what Hague says.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:23 pm 
The Independent article is a fishing trip, trying to find a gap between Hannan and ilk and Hague/Cameron to spoil the Party Conference.

Hannan, Helmer and ilk are totally loyal to Cameron,Hague and Francois. There is no split. The Independent needs to sell newspapers but has missed the key news.

Which is that The Conservatives are going to launch a rebellion against Lisbon if it is ratified, and fight to prevent its ratification in the meantime.

The details of the rebellious attack on Lisbon are being withheld but will be revealed the moment Lisbon is ratified, if it is.

Surely it would be more sense if the newspapers told people what the Conservatives are actually saying rather than creating their own narratives on trivial matters, based on false suppositions and information. Hague's words are dramatic enough pou would have thought.

I thought you knew better Richard.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:37 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:30 am
Posts: 3172
Location: portugal/germany
Tap:
If Cameron...or Hague...would simply stand up & say: "If we are elected we shall hold a referendum on our continued membership of the EU."...then the Tories would win by popularity & not by default.
Rather than having the guts to commit themselves they are counting, to their utterly degrading shame, on the latter.
Who would vote for such a crew of fudgeworthies...they might give pause for a thought that they may not win by default...and what then of the wasted opportunity?
Dream on!

_________________
Know thine enemy..........The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
Ronald Reagan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ooooo ... er!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:23 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
Tap wrote:
The Telegraph article you mention, Ricahrd, was run on a narrative of Hague not answering the 'referendum' question.

But as I point out on my blog, a referendum is not a policy, but a device to implement a policy.

A referendum about what ?

Once you get into the detail, the referendum is a possible way forward. The key though is to define what outcome you want. Hague says that once the situation is defined vis a vis Lisbon, they are ready to respond, and set out their stall.

He altered previous statements on how they would proceed if Lisbon were not to be ratified as they reach power, but the Telegraph did not seem to notice these comments were significant. He also added to the 'we would not let matters rest there' if Lisbon is not ratified, by saying when and how the new policy would be made known, which presumes that there is one. He does answer the question. Why buy into Telegraph narratives? Read what Hague says.



It really does not cut any ice ...

Quote:
If in the coming months all other obstacles are cleared and the treaty comes into force, Mr Cameron will not wait any longer. "We would set out what we would do in that contingency and it would be in our manifesto to seek a mandate for it.


They are playing games ... the treaty coming into force is not a remote possibility, but a distinct probability. Furthermore, it is not a scenario which encompasses any uncertainty, and it is therefore possible to have a view prior to the event. Given that they are not prepared to tell us what that view is, either Cameron does not have one or he is not prepared to tell us what it is. Either raises questions, but especially the latter ... if he is not prepared to tell us now, what is he hiding? Why does he want to tuck it into the manifesto, which will be issued during the election campaign proper, to be drowned by all the other policies on which the party proposes to fight?

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum lockedPost a reply Page 1 of 2   [ 23 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
610nm Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net